Tips on Treatments: A List to be Constantly Updated

There are various very important aspects that emerge during our many discussions here, that are finally lost while I find them very valuable. As a result, I created this list in order to make sure we do not loose them. This is a list that will be alive and evolve:

 

 

  • Using antiparasites/antibacterials prior to chemotherapy or other therapies
    Some scientists across the world argue that tumors, specifically those of lungs but not only, may develop various bacteria/parazites that can lead to treatment resistance. Very recently, a breakthrough paper published in Science magazine is demonstrating exactly this fact: Potential role of intratumor bacteria in mediating tumor resistance to the chemotherapeutic drug gemcitabine http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6356/1156 (Thanks Jandro for pointing this out). In line with this research, I would always consider using antiparasites (example Ivermectin) and/or antibiotics (e.g. Doxycicline) prior to a major anti cancer treatment.
    .
  • Stop any (alternative or not) treatment that can put at sleep cancer cells prior to chemotherapy
    It is well know that many of the chemo therapies are more effective in fast dividing cells. A recently published PhD thesis (Ref.) demonstrated that using drugs effective in slowing down tumor development (such as Metformin) may be good as it slows down cancer but is NOT suitable when those drugs are taken a few days prior to chemo, as they may make chemo less effective. Instead, the same work demonstrated that if Metformin is stop for a few days before chemo and is added starting with exactly the same day of chemo,  the chemo effectiveness increases. I expect the same rule should apply to other therapies that have the potential to slow down cancers: i.e. stop that treatment 3-4 days prior to chemo, and start again the same day with chemo.
    In contrast to the use of Metformin, here is why I actually think that fasting is actually good prior to chemo: https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/your-contribution-needed-on-breast-cancer-story-from-emad/#comment-6216
    .
  • Cimetidine is a great anti-metastasis off-label drug, but it may make some conventional treatments ineffective
    Indeed, Cimetidine is often used at clinics across the world as an anti mets drug. I do strongly believe in its potential. We did used Cim for about 3 years and I believe it is a major reason why we succeeded to keep a very aggressive cancer confined for all these years to the initial locations where it was first detected. Here is more about Cim potential (Ref.) However, due to its impact on specific enzymes responsible for drug metabolization, Cimetidine may reduce or increase plasma level of specific substances. For example, some hormonal treatments used to treat breast cancer patients, in order to be effective they need to be metabolized first, which will not happen if Cimetidin (or e.g. grapefruit juice) is used. Therefore, prior to use Cimetidine patients should discuss with their medical doctor potential interactions with current medication. The interactions between drugs can also be checked here http://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker?src=google
    .
  • Inflammation is essential for cancer development and any effective anti cancer strategy should address this aspect with anti inflammatory drugs and/or supplements, specifically prior to a surgery
    Here is a nice video shared sometime ago by Meech which I find extremely valuable and should be viewed by anyone considering a surgical intervention https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8zVrYEW8vE&feature=youtu.be
    .
  • When the patient is a child the dose needs to be lower
    We often speak about drugs and supplements and related doses to be used. However, those doses are typically what needs to be used for adults. For non-adult patients of age 2-17, the dose has to be reduced according to Clark’s Rule which uses Weight in Lbs, NEVER in Kg. In order to convert kilograms (Kg) to pounds (Lbs), you need to know that 1Kg = 2.2Lbs.
    Clark’s Rule says that Childs Dose = Adult Dose X (Weight in Lbs ÷ 150)(Ref.)
    .
  • Taking the treatment at the right time has important impact on both it’s effectiveness and toxicity: (Ref.)  For example, Statins and Aspirin may have to be taken at night in order to have them doing their job (Ref.). A good review on how important is to take chemo at the right time is here (Ref.). This is a technical paper and a bit more difficult to read but extremely valuable as you may also find exact reference to the chemo we are interest in, and best way to take that. A more easy to read article, but at a higher abstraction level compared to the previous reference, is here (Ref.) and it was published very recently (April 2018)  in Nature magazine.
    .
  • Alkalizing treatment may increase the effectiveness of some chemos, and may reduce that of other chemos. So take care! Indeed, it is known that some drugs are of acid type and others are of basic type. Like plus and minus. Acidic drugs are well absorbed in acidic environment while they will not get through when the environment is of basic type as they will react with the basic substances, and cannot not move further to do their job. This is why, when someone uses Bicarbonate for example, prior to chemo, that may strongly affect the effectiveness of chemo in a good or bad way depending on the type of chemo. This subject is discussed in more details somewhere at the middle of the following article https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/ph-cancer-a-top-treatment-strategy/.
    .
  • Preventing invasive breast cancer with low dose oral Chloroquine given for 4 weeks prior to surgical excision of the lesions. The design of the trial can be found here, and the results of the trial can be found here. Based on the trial results, as well as private communication of one of the visitors of this website with the authors behind the trial, only one capsule of 250mg Chloroquine every week during 4 weeks, generates a measurable reduction in proliferation of the lesions and enhances immune cell migration into the duct. This approach is expected to be relevant for many epithelial cancers (the most common cancers).
    .
  • Anaesthetics and anaesthetic techniques used during surgical interventions influence tumor development. Here is a super useful document prepared by the Department of Anesthesiology, Intensive Care and Pain Medicine Netherlands Cancer Institute – Antoni van Leeuwenhoek Hospital Amsterdam (Ref.) I am so happy to find such a high quality and forward looking work done by Dr. Michael Šrámek. This is a document you want to share with your surgery team so that they take the best decisions for you in terms of medication to use during the intervention.

Disclaimer:

This site is not designed to and does not provide medical advice, professional diagnosis, opinion, treatment or services to you or to any other individual. Through this site and linkages to other sites, I provide general information for educational purposes only. The information provided in this site, or through linkages to other sites, is not a substitute for medical or professional care, and you should not use the information in place of a visit, call consultation or the advice of your physician or other healthcare provider. I am not liable or responsible for any advice, course of treatment, diagnosis or any other information, services or product you obtain through this site. This is just my own personal opinion regarding what we have learned on this road.

Please read an extended version of the Disclaimer here: https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?page_id=1794

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166 Comments on "Tips on Treatments: A List to be Constantly Updated"

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Carl
Member

Excellent initiative Daniel! I have noticed your comments in the Forum regarding avoding Metformin before chemo. This is really interesting and I really would like to read the paper. I haven’t been able to find it myself so it would be great if anyone could provide a link

Meech
Member

One thing re: the talk that I posted on the forum.

While treating my tumours with ablation, Dr. Williams uses a slew of anti-vascular and anti growth factor drugs in the procedure. He also uses ketorolac, like Dr. Sukhatme recommended for surgery. So it may be of benefit for more than just surgery.

Wondering
Guest
ovidiu
Member

A warning on antibiotic usage: they don’t kill just the pathogenic bacteria, which may be responsible for chemo resistance, but also the probiotic bacteria. And probiotic bacteria may be quite useful, in combination with some chemo.
Well-balanced commensal microbiota contributes to anti-cancer response in a lung cancer mouse model.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26125762
So my advice is to avoid antibiotic use during chemo, besides the killing of useful bacteria, they may interfere with the cell cycle, and possibly antagonize chemo.
I guess the optimal treatment would be antibiotics before chemo (stop at least 24h before), and then rebuild the microbiota with probiotics (some of them secrete substances with potent activity against cancer). And diversity of the probiotics matters, for the stimulation of the immune system. Quantity should be moderate, some commercial packages of probiotics are just overdoses IMO, they can damage the liver and pancreas.
Since Doxycycline was mentioned, and it has anti-cancer properties (against hypoxic cancer stem-like cells), I must also warn that Doxycycline causes intestinal inflammation and irritation (after about 10 days of use at normal dose).
Doxycycline Promotes Carcinogenesis & Metastasis via Chronic Inflammatory Pathway: An In Vivo Approach.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26998758

Emad
Member

Hi Daniel , I have to say something regarding the second point (on stopping any (alternative or not) treatment that can slow down cancer cells prior to chemotherapy)

in the past I used to give a lot of DCA before 24 hours of chemo , and I felt like the chemo was always effective because of that , and for one time I stopped DCA for about 4 days of giving chemo , at that time the chemo didn’t have any effect , but also at that time I didn’t give DCA even after a week of the chemo

I’m not sure what was happening , could be that DCA should have stronger effect if I use to give it after and not before chemo ? or DCA is not slowing the cancer but making it less resistant to chemo ? or maybe DCA is doing far damage to cancer cells which makes chemo kill them easily even when they are slow ?

at the end I didn’t try to give DCA with and after chemo instead of giving it before chemo , I miss that chance to try this strategy

at then end I hope we will never need this , as we are planning to shift to hormonal therapy after TACE , and of course will use 3-BP and Sal or MG with it , hormonal therapy are daily pills so I think there is no specific strategy could be considered with it

just hope it could work and let the liver tumors stay where they are and not becoming bigger

cimetidine and hormonal therapy interaction is a very helpful thing to know about it especially now , thanks for these great tips , they are very helpful

Alex
Member

Awesome article Daniel!
Thank you
Alex

Ergin
Member

Dear Daniel,
Very useful post,thanks alot.Especially about metformin.
May be it is a good chance for diabetic patients.Because they have to use a medicine everyday to lower blood glucose,
they can try phlorizin, dapagliflozin or canagliflozin in metformin-free days.

An article about fasting.
http://l-nutra.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/elsevier-march-2012.pdf
Kind Regards
Ergin

jandro
Member

You know Ergin, cana and dapa , block sugar intake in kidney, this could increase osmotic filtering increasing renal function and decreasing bioavility of other drugs… unluckly things are more dificult that in an isolated papper :(((

Ergin
Member

Just 1 day trial Jandro.Phlorizin deserves respect.Isnt it?

jandro
Member

Ofc Ergin, best wishes. Remenber we are here for similar reason and same Wish.
About starvation i belive that in some way should work, not just about the nutrients that there are not , also for the hormones that body change level in that crisis time. Mature cells adapt to crisis time, unmature ca cells no.

Kind regards.

Ergin
Member

You are right Jandro,extreme changes in glucose levels can make changes in every part of the body.
I remember while my mother was on IPT,her blood glucose was down to 30.She afraid too much because she saw yellow circles everywhere.And still sometimes she says she sees those circles.
But phlorizin ,i dont know.as written in articles it has no correlation with insuline levels and you ll lower blood glucose slowly,and there ketones are working when glucose deprived up to an article.
Thanks alot for entering this subject.We need more data.
Kind Regards
Ergin

Ergin
Member

BTW there are some reports:
After chronic oral usage of dapagliflozin,a ladies blood glucose lowered to 13 .

Alex
Member

Dear friends, brothers and sisters.
It’s been a year and 2 days since my mom had surgery, she is still alive, but she would hardly call it that way. Paralized still, our life changed for the worst.
I’ve not forgotten any of you. i know i am not here much as i used to. Her needs require my continuous attention.
It’s my birthday, so i hope you all grab a beer, and relax, maybe have a nicer weekend, take a moment to remind your loved ones how much they mean to you.
Best of luck,
Alex!

Emad
Member

Dear Alex

Thank you for your words , they always make me feel better , even when I feel horrible

from the bottom of my heart , I wish a happy long life for you and your dear mother , and I wish to see your life chane again for the best after your birthday

Ergin
Member

Dear Alex,
Happy birthday happy healthy years with your dear mom.
Please search for oleuropein,this week i ll send you a bottle if you will use it ofcourse.
Kind Regards
Ergin

Carl
Member

This is a really interesting approach to making a peptide vaccine yourself: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xk5S0DwdXy8bVY30PJA07Z_uWcXr5P6Ejt4cJj3pNBw/edit

It focuses on a lung-cancer mutation, but I guess it could be modified.

Found it on http://alunglife.com/goal-cure-cancer-method/

Jcancom
Member

Carl that is absolutely brilliant!

When you can put in towards what everyone else is thinking you have a winner.
It has become increasingly clear to me that such a patient initiated, treatment approach would be a great idea.

Look at any cancer journal article and there will be detailed instructions of how to synthesize some cancer treatment
that is quite likely to be much better and safer than the 50 year old chemo drug that your doctor is trying to prescribe to you.
They might even be willing to prescribe something experimental that had at least some hint of clinical experience. However, when you read through the vast cancer literature you realize that very few of the ideas published ever make it to a patient.

I had never thought it could be so easy to go DIY with a cancer vaccine. Most people would imagine that it must be so complicated, when perhaps it really is not. I will be very interested to see what other vaccines might be made. BRAF? Could then formulate it in a liposome or other carrier? It might create an immune storm though I would wonder about the Aldara, Monobenzone, CpG 1809 combo with a peptide vaccine (the first three were used in a mouse model of melanoma with impressive results).

Carl
Member

Indeed. I have been following Lars Haakon and his relentless work to save his wife for a while now. He is the kinda guy that doesn’t see failure as an option. This DIY-vaccine is one of the most impressive concepts I have seen, apart from what Daniel has achieved on this site. D.I.Y. science or “bio-hacking” is really a democratization of science and something we will just see more and more of when big-pharma fail to deliver. Read about another, very different, but really interesting fecal-matter-transplant experiment https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/4/11581994/fmt-fecal-matter-transplant-josiah-zayner-microbiome-ibs-c-diff

Knowledge is power and determination can move mountains…

Jcancom
Member

Carl, wow, maybe we have something here.

Could it really be as easy as ordering the peptide sequence —
MIASHLLAYFFTELNGKPILFF-amide?

jandro
Member

I am following vaccine very close, i bealive is the correct way, cos in last 40 years there was not personalization ( like there was with bacterias) and cancer is a very very genuine/personal disease, all is result of self line mutation. Good some people have common points to be blocked, like pdl1, her2.. but most of them no. Thats a necesary step!! The issue i find now is that vaccine of peptides works when is showed in the surface, there is no way for something that is inside and ofc linfos will not atack.

Jcancom
Member

jandro,

this one has intrigued me for some time:
PMID: 20498710

It seems so brilliant! There are quite a few people out there who want to be whiter.
There are quite a few chemicals such as monobenzone that can help in depigmentation.
The idea with the above treatment is that one could induce an autoimmune response against
their melanocytes. This has certain dangers as other cells such as in the substantia nigra in the brain
also have melanocytes, though the mice research reported a large response against melanoma.

In terms of a preventative/therapeutic cancer vaccine one that I am familiar with is MUC1.
This is along the lines of glycosylation/fucosylation that I posted about recently. This class of
vaccine has been in the pipe for decades and decades and it still has not been approved. The entire FDA
procedure of requiring single agent efficacy in a treatment setting makes no sense. If one of these vaccines
were approved with only safety claims as a cancer preventative, I would be first in line to get it.

I am not sure though if I would just send for the peptide sequence. Regulators should help give people
better choices that are solidly backed by research.

http://vxlbio.com/vaxils-lead-product-immucin-has-been-granted-an-orphan-drug-designation-by-the-fda-for-the-treatment-of-multiple-myeloma/

jandro
Member

Dear Jcancon: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5214696/
aldara was already used like adyuvant to vaccine in lung. Inmune stimulators i guess are going to grow up in this field.

Jcancom
Member

Faseb 31:5 pp. 2168-2188

Gabi
Member

Hi everyone !

I am new to this page, just found it recently in my desperate search. Most websites I found actually were full of bombastic promises and trying to sell something.
Long story short : I was feeling absolutely great all summer , but there was this lump in my breast. Late april on yearly mammography they told me there is a benign liph node, nothing to worry about. I trusted. But then in september I decided not to wait till the next yearly checkup and visited a doctor . Turns out I have a breast cancer ( 3 cm) + lymph-node metastasis. Triple negative and rather aggressive kind that reacts only to chemo.
Had my first chemo yesterday.
I am trying to find all complementary treatments that will help me get well and that I can afford ( I live on Hungarian income).
I read so many contradictory information, not sure how to select
I am taking or considering to take :
Avemar (fermented wheat germ ) – not cheap stuff, but I read some good things – any of you have experience ?
Artemisinin – I bought ” doctors best artemisinin” – is it ok ? any better source? Can it be taken with chemo ?
Vitamon C – I was always taking large doses- can it be taken with chemo?
D ( I have been taking 5000 IU for years) – should I continue with chemo ?
MSM – 1 tablespoon – can I continue during Chemo ?
wheat grass juice ( is it any good for this ? I am buying it frozen, not too cheap around here )
Mustard seed, silver colloid, baking soda, etc etc
Can you pls give me an overall opinion on how you would proceed , or suggest.
In the fist step – I would like to make the chemo work and enhance all effects ( I was too scarred not to accept this )
This situation is still so new to me and I am kin of lost – but in order not to lose my mind I need to treat this my healing as a project .
Thanks for all inputs in advance
Gabi

W.
Member

hi Gabi,

first of all regards from the shiny budapest. 🙂

a few suggestions for your research:

– when you research always try to check if there are studies showing results again your cancer type. Obviously there are metabolic similarities so many substances work against lots of cancer, however, in this regard i am not sure about Avemar for instance. It tends to help with side effects (vitalising) but it it is not proved to be useful against all types in the studies I have seen. Also not too cheap (of course its relative)

– Probably your chemo is PRO-oxidant (resulting in higher ROS level in cancer cells leading to apoptosis). You should NOT take anti oxidants during your chemoterapy, like vit C. these are counteracting.

– Try to exercise a lot even during chemo (well, maybe not on chemo days). Exercise increases your chance of survival for breast cancer. Exercise can be mild: Try to walk 60 minutes per day, or jog 15 minutes per day. I am amazed by the studies showing how much an active lifestyle can help with breast cancer (but not all cancers unfortunately). I can try to find the studies if you dont.

– Chemo drugs are VERY different compared to each other. When in doubt, google for combinations like: “D vitamin * your cancer drug”. For instance, there are cancer drugs that are stronger with curcumin – but not each!! be aware of counter actions.

– please research: EGCG, Curcumin, Melatonin, Metformin / Berberine, Chlorella, DCA, Doxycycline, ketogenic diet (or at least low carbohydrate like paleo), Mebendazole, Ala, HCA (also the metabloc protocoll inc ala plus hca), Qeurcetin, Rezveratrol, selenium, niacinamide (can make your chemo stronger), genistein, citric acid (i know, sounds weird).

– VIT D is indeed useful, cheap and safe

– dont care oo much about stats re triple negative, you are unique. Use chemo and use research to complement it.

– there is a “how to make chemo stronger” article here, or something like this. Also “tips for treatment”. both very useful…

all the best,
W.

Gabi
Member

Dear W

Thanks for your answer. Not sure I understand all of it, but I am learning fast 🙂 .
Regarding Avemar – I bought 2 boxes ( rather expensive stuff ) . I was given quite a lot of articles along with it- but of course they were selected by Avemar company- so not sure how much to trust. Do you think Avemar is anti-oxidant , actually pushing down the chemo effect ?
Also , thanks for pointing out the importance of exercise . I have read a lot of articles . Really useful. Wasnt aware – the benefit percentages are impressive.
Ketogenic diet : I was on keto diet since January this year ( with the only aim to lose weight, which I succeeded) and this developed in me while I was on keto. Now I switched to vegan keto , but its hard , due to a limited source of food ( not that i am too hungry since I learned I have cancer – very good appetite suppressant )
Not sure if doctors here would be too cooperative in prescribing Metformine or other prescription drugs.
Vit C : should I stop it only in the few days before/after chemo , or for the whole 5-6 months ( I will receive 6 chemos , every 3 weeks – 5FO, Epirubicin, Cyclofosfamid )
Anyway, thanks for suggestions- and pls fill me with any information you might come up with if you have time
Regards- Gabi

W.
Member

hi Gabi,

feel free to ask what you did not understand.

Avemar – I am not aware of it being anti oxidant. I would take it as it helps with side effects too . Maybe you can ask the doctor, although its pretty sure he just will not care. are there avemar studies for your breast cancer type? (in lab or in animals)

Ketogenic diet – Probably your “benign” lymph node was already cancerous in april, maybe I dont know breast cancer enough but I can ‘t see how you would develop a primary cancer and a metastasis in 6 months from a fully benign environment. This did not start when you were on keto, it started earlier. Although i see what you mean – you had a quick progression while on keto. I think vegan diet is also good – I would just avoid carbohydrates and move towards plant based. Its very hard i know. just like keto. Also, diet alone is not enough but a clever diet can increase your chance a little bit.

– Read about dr longo and fasting ( short 1-2 days fasting before chemo seems to help for instance)

– no, doctors will not prescribe you anything. Altough you can order Berberine from abroad, that is similar to metformin. And safe.

– read about HCA + ALA , called metabloc (dont take this during chemo). safe and relatively cheap.

Alex
Member

Dear Gabi,

Let us not forget the old and powerful Metformin, Aspirin, Diclofenac, Strategic fasting. They can help with your treatment, prevent metastasis or slow it down. Talk to your doctors. A “small” 3cm thing in the breast could probably be accessible trough skin and breast tissue, i’m talking about hyperthermia, lotions, radiation.
This one is a personal “stupid” idea, like strangulation of the breast with ropes.
Do talk to your doctors!

Maybe look for nutritional lifestyle changes, also…. CUT DOWN spending$$$$, i hope that you will not need every single coin.
Every disease like this needs something, try to use strategy to cut down it’s resources when it needs them most. Work with your doctors, do what you feel is best.
Have a listen/look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkzfeJz66o

My best wishes and salutations to everyone.
Alex

Gabi
Member

Thanks Alex !

The small thing could be accessible through skin- but doctors are treating me only with Chemo. In Hungary the situation in healthcare is not great . Doctors dont have long constructive conversations with you, and they will not really discuss too many options . You can mainly take the therapy – or not. I am too scarred not to.
I cut down the carbs in January ( for weight loss reasons ) – and still got this thing develop in me from “benign lymph node” to 3 cm cancer + Lymphnode metastases from april to October . I am a little disappointed in nutritional option- but will continue ( no way I would go on carbs now ) 🙂
If you come up with anything new, pls share

Thanks in advance

Gabi

W.
Member

Gabi,

I think Alex raised something important.

Please check if hyperthermia is being used again your cancer type (I mean if there are human studies showing that it works) Some doctors here are not aware of this but they do this (for free) in hungary, although only regional / partial hyperthermia. You can arrange this.

I think this (partial hyperthermia) is what you need as you dont have distant mets.

In vienna they do full body hyperthermia for around 160 EUR per occasion.

ovidiu
Member

Gabi, how are we going to know if what you are taking is going to work with or against your current chemo, if you don’t tell us what chemo you received?
For TNBC, there is a chemo that achieved 100% pathologic complete responses in a trial, but probably has serious side effects.
A Phase I Study of Neoadjuvant Chemotherapy With Nab-Paclitaxel, Doxorubicin, and Cyclophosphamide in Patients With Stage II to III Breast Cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28579139

Gabi
Member

Dear Ovidiu,

I am getting : 5FO, Epirubicin, Ciclofaosfamid ( hope I spelled it ok )
Thanks for sharing this study with me . Sounds promising.
I will be grateful for any further advice too

Regards,

Gabi

ovidiu
Member

Dear Gabi,

The FEC that you are taking now is typical for breast cancer, but a bit old and with response rates not great for TNBC of your stage.
I suggest to get nab-paclitaxel (Abraxane) in your treatment if possible (paid by the health insurance?), because it increases response rates is TNBC.
The main reason is, I believe, that nab-paclitaxel clears the cancer-associated fibroblasts, and possibly other tumor-associated cells. In TNBC, a rich tumoral stroma is associated with poor prognosis. Quoting from the paper referenced below:
Interestingly, patients with TNBC harboring stroma-rich tumors (≥50% stroma) were found to have a poorer outcome than patients harboring tumors with small amounts of stroma. Opposite result was observed in ER positive breast cancers.
Role of tumor microenvironment in triple-negative breast cancer and its prognostic significance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28729775

It may be possible to reduce the cancer-associated fibroblasts with another drug, Pirfenidone (an anti-fibrotic).
Targeting the cancer-associated fibroblasts as a treatment in triple-negative breast cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27756881

I also found an article (inspired by the suggestion of hyperthermia by other posters) about a pathological complete response for a TNBC patient with a worse condition that yours, looks promising.
Efficacy of Metabolically Supported Chemotherapy Combined with Ketogenic Diet, Hyperthermia, and Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for Stage IV Triple-Negative Breast Cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28924531

I hope this helps, good luck!

Jcancom
Member

Gabi, I am so glad that you have found this site!
It was such a great idea to trust your own intuition and not your doctor’s.

There is an entire crew here that have been working away trying to understand cancer for the last few years.
Cancer is much too much to try and cope with alone.
As you likely know there is simply oceans of cancer research that no one by themselves can make any sense of.

Just to give you an idea of something that I have found promising of late is positively charged nanoparticles. D, has a link on his news feed. Cancer cells will generally produce lactic acid, lactic acid has a negative charge, when the lactic acid leaves the cancer cell, it drags away positive charge from the surface of the cancer cell, making the surface of the cancer cell negatively charged. Non-cancerous cells do not have negative charges on their surfaces. So, this means that positively charged nanoparticles would selectively target cancer cells. Details of this are provided in the literature.

I hope that we can help you.

Gabi
Member

Thanks for giving me this information, I will definitely research – but the question is how to access these treatments ? They dont seem harmful , and I would love to hit this with all possible weapons that are not harmful.
I will keep following the posts- but pls share with me anything you find ( especially on triple negative breast cancer )

Thanks a lot in advance

Gabi

Jcancom
Member

Gabi,

after all of the years that I have been trying to find effective cancer treatments, I have finally arrived at the conclusion
that connecting with the chemistry community would be of very great help. There are many many
treatments that are described in the cancer literature that on the surface appear reasonably safe, yet probably will
never make it to a patient. University researchers typically do not have 1 billion or more dollars to move it forward.
So what happens is they publish very interesting ideas and then move onto the next interesting idea.

My best suggestion would be to connect up with chemists or cancer clinics that could synthesize some of these impressive chemicals. You probably would not want to use it right away, though you would then have something for a rainy day. The idea is to do this now while time and health on your side.

So often with cancer, people will let things drift forward possibly for many years and not have a well formulated strategy to fall back. It would be such a great idea if you took the opportunity now to formulate your back up plan. There are many many to choose from and many of them require very little chemistry.

Alex
Member

That’s a good idea.
I may be coming down with something…. maybe… more stupid ideas … the kind only me can give lol.

What do cancer cells produce that the rest of the body doesn’t? If we can identify such a chemical, we may possibly find another chemical that would create a “concrete” like substance in contact with that one produced by the tumor, thus blocking incoming nutrients, starving the tumor.

Stupid crazy idea, i know….

Alex

Jcancom
Member

Alex,

there are so many of very impressive and apparently safe cancer treatments that I read about in almost every issue of every journal that I find. These great ideas are simply everywhere! Yet, typical cancer patients will go to their doctors and fill prescriptions for chemotherapy drugs, many of which have never shown any effectiveness at all for all of the decades that they have been marketed. The FDA has even admitted that many of these drugs would best be described as toxic placebos. Even placebo would be too strong a recommendation for these drugs because placebos can have beneficial effects that many cancer drugs never demonstrate.

Metastatic patients then inevitably progress at which point mainstream medicine suggests people get their affairs in order. Even still your guidance to stay with traditional medicine is greatly appealing to many and for the great fraction of patients who have no other strategies is entirely reasonable. However, even for these patients it seems justifiable to suggest that at some point there will be no further help from mainstream medicine. At that point one would want to be able to access treatments that had not been more formally studied.

As an example of such a treatment trajectory, consider the liver patient with 3-BP. After being given the only suitable drug which had a 2% response rate and an expected response time of perhaps a month or two, a response did occur. Yet, once this response faded there was no obvious go to treatment left. This did not stop the ethics panel from carefully considering the risks of 3-BP treatment even while the patient was in near terminal medical crisis. After 3-BP was finally administered the response to this treatment was almost immediate and the response continued to be evident as the treatment was continued over the next many months. At last labs there was no remaining detectable cancer. It is very difficult for me to understand why of all the millions of cancer patients who succumb to their illness each year more of them do not try some sort of an innovative approach when they have exhausted all of the options of modern medicine.

One such option could be minicells. Minicells have shown a million fold increase in effectiveness over straight chemo.
Clinical trials have been ongoing now for over ten years and they are still stuck in phase 1 development. They would not seem to be a rash or radical suggestion to those who might desperately needed something that could help them.

Alex
Member

I think many would go for 3-BP, or other treatments if they were to be actually applied, i for one can’t make this treatment available to my mother, even if i could, i wouldn’t know what i am doing, same goes for many other treatments and people in similar situations.
These treatments need be administered by people who know what they are doing.
If 3-BP is indeed so potent, i’m guessing a lot of people would be most interested to participate in a trial if they feel the have nothing to lose.

What i was thinking before, regarding to your comment above, a fly trap, trojan horse, make it starve itself to death by either sealing its blood supply, thanks to blood additives that bind to chemicals secreted by the cancerous tumor or by adding to the blood some chemical that would immobilize the cancer cells, separate them from one another, chock them to death, some chemical that would stick to those cancer cells like a fly to honey.

These ideas would likely create a lot of side effects, damage to surrounding tissues, inflamation, edema, necrosis,….
But if they would work, they could hold the cancer at bay, granted we are talking about solid tumors.

These ideas may have been worked on before, or are being worked on as we speak, however working on them would obviously require tons of money.
I’m not talking about a cure, it’s more like an exploit. A “buy time” solution

Cheers.
Alex

Jcancom
Member

Alex, I know how difficult going off road would be for people.
Staying with traditional medicine is likely the only choice for many people.
Yet, at some point mainstream doctors simply say that they cannot help anymore.

This has been the question that I have been especially interested in for all of these years.
What are people expected to do then?
It continues to surprise me that patients are then in the position that traditional medicine will not help
and at the same time they can shut off any other options. I recently read this very situation where a patient was trapped into being in a state of limbo when traditional medicine would offer no treatments options while denying alternative approaches. I would feel so much better if traditional medicine had a greater latitude to help patients when conventional medicine no longer had much to offer. I do not understand why this is not the standard of care.It would be such a great step forward for patient care if this were true.

As an example, PMID: 19709637.
Tocotrienol has anti-cancer effects, though as this research finds simply giving oral doses will have no treatment effect. Yet, in mice iv dosing with nanoparticle tocotrienol had a significant anti cancer effect. This might not be a bad one to have on the shelf for a time when one ran out of other options.

I would love if there were double blind placebo controlled phase 3 trials with this treatment to bring all the potential side effects and efficacy into the open. Yet, this research has been going on for almost a decade and no clinical trial is in sight. My best guess is there never will be a clinical trial. This approach is not the best of all possible worlds, though for many patients it might not be unreasonable.

At the same time, I am becoming ever more cautious because I can see emerging pharma solutions that are very powerful. For example, minicells are moving through clinical trials. recently they announced that miRNA and siRNA minicells have been dosed in humans. If it is possible to begin selectively genetically reprogramming cancer cells with minicells, then very powerful anti-cancer treatments should now be on the horizon.

Another idea that is exciting is the positive nanoparticles which is somewhat similar to your idea. A positive charge on a nanoparticle would selectively cling to the negative charge that exists almost exclusively on cancer cells. The payload could then be directed at the cancer cells.

We have seen so many of those on our threads run out of treatment options. Perhaps having more options available ready for such occasions would be helpful.

Alex
Member

Dear J
I wonder what product containing these positively charged particles could be used relatively safe at a decent price.
Is there some chemical product?

Best wishes, have a nice weekend,
Alex

Jcancom
Member

Gabi, don’t want to bother you but there is just so much exciting research out there that I want you to be aware of.

Research did a simple combo of dox and vitamin C and it appeared to knock down cancer stem cells.
PMID: 28978032

From what I have seen, it is probably best to be open to ideas such as this.
By itself low dose vitamin C likely would do little good and perhaps some bad, though when you add things together e.g. with the dox etc. there is some real potential.

I have seen so many people on the 3-BP thread hum and haw endlessly even when they are in very
serious condition and ultimately not take advantage of the many opportunities that are available to them.
However, I would like to hear D’s opinion on this.

Best Wishes.

Alex
Member

That looks great for CSCs, that sounds like a strategy to be followed experimentally with doctor’s approval only AFTER no sign of tumor is seen, is this correct?

Cheers,
Alex

Jcancom
Member

Alex, you are so correct that there are so many questions with this research.
It would be of such great help to have one’s doctor to work through all the potential
stumbling blocks. We might have to wait for more of a description of this in future work.

I was wondering what would happen if higher doses of iv vitamin C could be combined with the dox.

I looked again through the article for mention about sequencing this only after the tumor was no longer visible
though I was not able to find this reference. It is possible that waiting for such a tumor response might be
helpful, though from a first guess it also seems entirely possible that treating before such a disappearance
would also be helpful: removing the cells that are driving the growth of the cancer could then allow you
the chance to then simply remove the bulk of the non-CSCs. The big underlying question that you are likely
referring to is how successful treatment targeting CSC would be if it might be surrounded by bulk cancer cells
that possibly could shield them from the drugs. Unfortunately the article did not have an in vivo component to
answer these questions.

Jcancom
Member

Alex, Ovidiu commented on this on the News thread on September 19th. He noted that dox can cause troubles including removal of helpful bacteria, inflammation –> and metastasis(?) that would need to be thought through carefully.

ovidiu
Member

My point was that doxycycline can’t be used for a long time, because of intestinal troubles. I have used doxycycline for my pets (treating flea borne diseases) in the past, and I can confirm those troubles.

Jcancom
Member

ovidiu, sorry for simplifying your comment, though I needed a reference to complexify the conversation.

The research that I quoted of dox and vitamin c seemed so neat and tidy. Yet, as you noted there are a
range of issues that would need to be considered for such a treatment. Even still the potential to directly
attack the tumor growth driver is encouraging.

Alex
Member

Thank you jcancom.
if i’m not mistaken, Ovidiu also mentioned suplimenting with Pro-biotics. My question would be, what strains would be suitable?! Variety has to be a bonus but what strains?!
Best wishes,
Alex

ovidiu
Member

@Alex: free information on the matter is scarce, this the only one I found:
The Role of Probiotics in Cancer Treatment: Emphasis on their In Vivo and In Vitro Anti-metastatic Effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28890883

Jcancom
Member

Alex,

it is very frustrating that with so many of the questions in alternative medicine the answers are so fragmentary.
Even after 60 years of vitamin C, the answers are elusive.

Clearly it is such an overwhelming advantage for pharma that they can spend the resources to find the answers that they need.

Jcancom
Member

Alex, you asked about the microbiome.

It keeps popping up in the literature.
On the compass thread we commented on an article that found that
ipi responders had a modified gut flora. Below is another article that
found responders did better with a different microbiome. This is exciting
research as the article notes that changing microbiomes should not be
overly difficult.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171102141827.htm

I also read of research that found that a type of cheese from Switzerland
was found to have a helpful probiotic. More details on this research will
be greatly anticipated

anca
Member

Dear Daniel and everyone here in need,

I wanted to give an update of my mothers’s situation and tell about two pills, HYDRAZINE SULFATE and BASENTABS. It was like a rollercoaster to us. We stopped chemotherapy at the end of July, very weak and nothing was working the marker CA-125 was very big, 2 or 3000 and more, then we took 3 week sessions of high-dose vitamn C and Vitamin B17 (amigdalin) and Magnesium intravenous. My mother stomach is destroyed, maybe by chemotherapy, she has big pains in the stomach everyday. Vitamin C might have helped beuacause my mother’s CA-125 marker was 1700 in September. We had to stop Vitamin C IV, because my mother was trembling and she had big pains in the stomach, she thought she could be alergic to vitamin C. A month ago we stopped every intravenous treatment, and we sticked to pills. Now my mother’s marker is 1032, so it is even better than in September, which is a miracle to us. What my moter took this month is: HYDRAZINE SULFATE for one month, every day one pill split in two halves, one half in the morning and one half in the day, we used a low dose of medicin for fear it might be toxic, a week ago my mother started taking BASENTABS, some anti-acid pills from Germany containing
Calcium carbonate 201.7mg
Sodium bicarbonate 160mg
Magnesium carbonate 120mg
Sodium phosphate, monobasic 20mg
Potassium bicarbonate 20mg
Zinc 0.25mg
I mention we also used BERBERINE, which is out of plants and has the same effect as Metformin and also ImmPower, a strong immune system booster that I bought from the United States.
I hope this information will help.

Kind regards and good health to everyone,
Anca

W.
Member

Hi Anca and Daniel

Could it be that the decrease from 1700 to 1000 is a prolongued effect of Vitamin C IV? Mind you, you stopped in September and the new result came end of October. It is only somewhat more than one month.

I would be glad if it came from Hydrazine as it would be more sustainable but we cant be sure

Either way, it is amazing, Anca!

artwolf
Member

Any idea’s on alternative treatments or adjuncts to use for a friend of mine who was recently diagnosed with NHL Lymphoma.
They want to put him on the R-CHOP chemo protocol but he is looking for alternatives other than this routine to try an avoid the collateral damage that is inherent with Chemo. Thanks for your ideas and any help

Art

Jcancom
Member

artwolf, this is only 1 or 2 patients.
Not much to go on, though it is good to be aware of alternatives.

http://scientificmania.blogspot.ca/2013/04/non-hodgkins-lymphoma-case-studies-with.html

artwolf
Member

Thank you very much for the response Very interesting

Jcancom
Member

What is so frustrating about much of the cancer research is that there is no clear explanation for why these
alternative treatments work for some patients.

As was seen in the patients using DCA for NHL, DCA can be a very effective treatment is some patients.
The problem is it is not known before the fact who those patients might be.

This is true with so many treatments. For example, 3-BP etc. .
Some 3-BP patients (likely quite selective) have had overwhelmingly massive responses, and others
have not had any benefit. MCT-1 status probably would be a helpful biomarker.

Patients would benefit enormously if the genetic or otherwise reasons for
such differences in treatment response could be found.

artwolf
Member

What is so frustrating in my opinion is that on a conventional route we are still using the same game plan that was used decades ago that being CHEMO and or Radiation. Granted that some of the side effects might be able to be mitigated with the help of some newer drugs but the possible and probable collateral damage from Chemo still exist. After chemo fails initially or the Cancer builds a Resistance to it then you might be able to get on some of the newer pharmaceuticals but only after the chemo fails and damage has been done. I am sure part of this maybe due to the cost of these newer drugs. I know that Cancer is extremely complex and I am certainly no scientist however I would have thought in this day in age we would have been more advanced and would have found more viable and safer conventional alternative’s by now sparring those afflicted with having to deal with the side effects of Chemo

Jcancom
Member

artwolf, yes I certainly share this frustration.

Metastatic cancer was cured in lab models 25 years ago.
Since then it has probably been cured hundreds of different ways in mice and yet few if any of these
approaches have translated into humans. Many of the thought leaders in cancer research have
moved to other research questions that have not been as comprehensively studied as cancer.

Is it really conceivable that none of the many approaches that successfully cured mice would not work in people?
This seems very unlikely.

The information above about Hydrazine Sulfate was a real eye opener. It appears that a substantial effort was made
to keep it from market even when there was significant evidence that it could help. Most of the treatments mentioned on this thread and almost all of the cancer research on pubmed involves highly promising treatments that never make forward progress. 3-BP would appear to be a very promising treatment approach yet nearly 20 years after the initial research was published there is still not a single patient who has been dosed with it in a phase 1 clinical trial. I am certainly frustrated by this!

Alex
Member

Hello everyone.

Here to say that my mother’s markers have decreased considerably compared to when she got paralyzed and is now starting to feel her legs, still unable to move them at all, i’m thinking to get someone in fiziotherapy of kinetotherapy….

Before: LDH 386 \ CA 19-9 …66.85 \ CEA 67.53 –> 12-6-2017
Now: LDH 252 \ CA 19-9 …25.10 \ CEA 44.45 –> 1-11-2017

My mother’s analisis of the tumor reveals gene expression that can be addressed by ERLOTINIBUM/tarceva 150mg/day, so papers say from the doctors.
She’s been taking this drug for 3 months now, going into her 4th, this has been combined with Zometa (Zoledronic Acid) once every 21 days, that one has been given to her before and during Tarceva.
It looks like combined they offer better results, Zometa is more evident for sure.
Her breathing got deeper and more full of air. It’s been a bit more than 5 months since she got stuck in bed due to paralisys.
On the side she’s been taking metformin, aspirin, diclofenac on occasion, some vitamins and minerals, next to low carb, low protein diet.

I’ll provide more information about the treatment protocol in the future.

I hope this information helps someone, looking forward for your opinions, i wish everyone will have good news and that they will remain good forever.

Dear brothers, sisters, family and friends.
I wish you all a great happy weekend, full of love.
Alex

Ergin
Member

Hahahaaaaa
Alex this is the best news i have heard from months.I love her too much brother.
But please be brave and try more powerfull treatments,when the things are going good.
Call me i lost your phone.

Ergin
Member

May be people interest my knowledge and experiences just like Daniel and Pouya.
I saw that this the right place to write this.
Cancer patients passes away mostly because of embolism.
There are some tricks how you can understand this like albumin and others.
I saw this on lots of patients.
I can write it here or on another place.
Daniel should choose the right place.
Kind Regards
Ergin

Ergin
Member

We have to be more clever and more brave if we want do stg to beat cancer.
We really need to take statistics.
We need a statistics page which especially includes blood counts that we never tried.I ashamed to write all her blood counts here but i dont why now.
We have to see the reality.
Do not get into dreams while using DCA alone for example.
I am following people who is writing against chemo. They are wrong unfortunately.
Also in Daniels pages,every treatments which shows promise does not mean that it fits you.He already writes that it may help but not %100 if you carefully read pages.
I dont want to be in Daniels position forever.Very hard to deal.Now i can understand.Daniel you must be an angel.

Ergin
Member

And please do not forget this:
If you believe into evolution,
Cancer is a must…

Alex
Member

Thank you bro,
honestly, i want to be careful with money. My mother needs too many things all the time.
We can always use skype to talk, sadly i am not on computer very much because of my mother’s situation.
After your mothers passing away, i can only say i am very very very very very very sorry, and i know it was not a good moment for conversation, i still don’t think it is. Maybe i am more sensitive, i dont know…. but after what you’ve been trough, i would take a serious vacation. Honestly i need one even before i knew my mother’s situation, let alone now. My health is degrading too, i don’t know how long i will be able to continue without killing myself in the process.
Not living in a city, means help is far far away even when you’re giving money for it.
I have to do everything, day night….. not important, sleeep or not, back pain or not… etc MUST DO.
She need something all the time. She doesn’t get tiered like everyone.
You are my brother forever, i am sorry for your angel. Please take care of YOU brother. Help, donate, and try to relax.
Sometimes i think i go crazy, too much suffering, too much stress from everywhere, too many people suffering, good people.
I don’t know what other more powerfull treatments to try, i’m honestly a bit worried i would mess up the oncologist’s protocol and maybe my mother’s chance to live a longer life.
This Hydrazine Sulfate seems interesting, the one Anca tried.
Also honestly, the drugs i mentioned above address quite a few sides of the problem, i know the problem has many sides but i also have this recent belief that going for the basics may actually be more “profitable” in some cases, doing less can sometimes be more than expected, again one example if not mine, can be Anca’s. Obviously these are not silver bullets, but then again, what is? This disease, has no mercy, it’s genetic expression shifts depending on the situation, it’s something out of sci-fi horror movies but real, Aliens, The Thing, Virus, i’m not saying we can’t gain time and confort, i’m saying with our current technology and knolege, it’s likely that any treatment can fail in preventing appearance of cancer after complete remission, if one is lucky to even have one.
Cancer is the entire evolution of life in ONE CELL. Over billions of years, it has aquired potential adaptations, states, modes, ways to shift, to reproduce, to eat, to starve, to rezist radiation from the sun, heat, vibrations, acids and bases, countless substances, it learned to collaborate with other cells, to fool it’s enemies…. to survive, it wants to live forever regardless of cost.
That’s what cancer is, a single cell’s “will” to survive forever and not be alone on this ride, next evolution step is to find a way not to kill the host,possibly.

Anyway… too much said…
Try to relax this weekend brother,
Take care,
Alex

ovidiu
Member

@Alex: good to know that your mother has the EGFR mutation (smokers usually have the Kras mutation) and TKIs can help her for some time.
As I mentioned some time ago, Erlotinib induces it’s own resistance by the activation of STAT3. However, Zoledronic acid can counter that.
Zoledronic acid increases the antitumor effect of gefitinib treatment for non-small cell lung cancer with EGFR mutations.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27109760
My advice is to search for options to increase the efficacy of Erlotinib and prepare alternatives for the time when it won’t be working anymore.

Alex
Member

@ Ovidiu

SO if Zoledronic acid makes the cancer cells vulnerable to Erlotinib…. will that change?
Is Zoledronic acid and erlotinib enough to get rid of it? Would cell death be higher than cell growth in that time?
My mom get’s the acid every 21 days, she has pain for a few days after, then nothing much.
What alternatives would there be?
What more can actually be done?
Not sure if radiation would work on the spine and cord, too much nerve involvment.
As you well know, sadly, doctors don’t talk much.
I would talk to the doctor/s if there’s something that can actually be done for her that they aren’t doing already.
We’ll be doing markers once more before everyone goes on holliday;s leave, to check for stable or higher/lower marker values.
After that will probably get her scanned.
Can’t believe we made it this far…. it’s been more than a year since i got on this site.
I’m not sure what more i can do for her….
I know i should search on my own, but in all honesty, i have no idea about all this, i’m learning some but…. this field is toooooooo complicated for me. To me, i’m “stupid” but looking from outside, even A.I. has problems with all this.
We’re obviously still “in the shade” here.
Her beeing paralized, needs help all the time with all the things nobody thinks of, requires almost constant attention
i’m doing my best to keep her as healthy as possible, as pleased as possible, making her as confortable as possible.
Meanwhile kinda distroying myself in the process not that i am complaining. “Gimme pain till i die”.
Sorry for making it too long.

My best wishes to you and everyone else reading.
Alex

ovidiu
Member

@Alex: after reading a couple of articles about the resistance to TKIs, I’ll try to summarize what I found out (maybe you already know this, but other readers don’t):
– resistance to Erlotinib (other than resistance induced by EMT) develops about 10 – 14 months from the start of the treatment;
– about 50% of the resistance cases is by the T790M mutation; the rest are by Her2 (EGFR is Her1), Kras or c-Met (HGFR) amplification, others possible;
– the approved third generation TKI for the treatment of Erlotinib resistant (T790M) cancer is Osimertinib, which is probably extremely expensive… 🙁
– Zoledronic acid, besides being a STAT3 inhibitor (which counters the activation of STAT3 by Erlotinib) is also a Her1 and Her2 inhibitor, and may overcome resistance by the T790M mutation.

Repurposing of bisphosphonates for the prevention and therapy of nonsmall cell lung and breast cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25453078

However, Zoledronic acid has a poor bodily distribution, almost all goes into the bone tissue, where from it is slowly diffused back in blood and excreted by the kidneys. So other organs than bone (and maybe kidneys) may not get the benefits of the synergy with Erlotinib. Despite this, studies on mice and a case that I linked in the previous post indicate that there is a benefit. Ideally, a new compound that has the same properties as the Zoledronic acid, but a better distribution in organs other than bone, would be required for optimal synergy with Erlotinib.

About what could increase the efficacy of the current treatment… I can think only of Niclosamide and Disulfiram (low dose 80 – 120 mg daily). But in case you try one of them, beware of side effects (Disulfiram can amplify liver damage induced by other drugs).
As for your health, I would expect after many months of stress because of the dire situation, probably your immunity isn’t so good. I would suggest taking some affordable vitamins, like Milgamma_N and D3 (cholecalciferol) to boost it, especially during this winter.

Alex
Member

i will say this as an initial reply.
The presence of your reply brought tears in my eyes.
Thank you for the time you take and most importantly, the heart you probably put into all this.
I will return with a more “full” reply

Alex

Alex
Member

@ Ovidiu
Ok i’m back.
I don’t know if Osimertinib could be obtained by us in Romania by goverment insurance. The price is an obvious killer.
I think we’re very much closer to the problem my mom has than we were in the past. Better understanding of what’s going on.
It seems like Disulfiram is the more budged focused one to buy.
I took some vitamins and stuff, feels great!
I hear they approved immunotherapy in Romania payed by goverment insurance, sadly not much more information on that has been given.
She feels pain shortly after the Zoledronic acid, a few days after there are some improvements noticed.
The Erlotinib 150mg is having bad skin side effects, she can hardly take it, the itching, the scratching, the red skin, it’s hard, but there is almost no pain at the tumor site because of Erlotinib. The same we tried to achieve with high dose aspirin and metformin, but never really made it there where Erlotinib got to in terms of pain reducing.
What more can be done? What’s your opinion? Side effects management? Quality of life? Treatment improvement?
I’m very sorry if i ask too much… as you well know, doctors don’t talk much at all.
Meanwhile i hope you’ll have a nice time with your close ones, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May good health be with you and everyone here reading.

Thank you for everything, it means a lot.
Alex

ovidiu
Member

@Alex: before dealing with the T790M mutation resistance, you should try to deal with the resistance arising from EMT. While in bone tissue it may be partially reversed by Zoledronic acid, your mother probably has other metastases too. As mentioned before, Erlotinib makes cancer cells activate Stat3, but I found other articles that show also a YAP activation, as a survival response to Erlotinib. Combined treatment against EGFR, Stat3 and YAP yields the most killing of cancer cells. Both Stat3 and YAP high expression are associated with EMT and poor prognosis. As Stat3 inhibitors, besides Zoledronic acid (in bone tissue) and Niclosamide (with rather poor bioavailability) I found another 2 anti-parasitics, Nifuroxazide and Nifurantel, but no information about their bioavailability. As YAP inhibitors, there are Dasatinib (a Src-YAP inhibitor that is synergetic with EGFR inhibitors; reverts EMT), Verteporfin (but this one is taken intravenously) and statins (preferred one is Fluvastatin, which also acts against bone metastases; however, with statins there is a risk for muscle damage).

Disulfiram probably synergizes with Erlotinib because of PLK1 inhibition, but there is no article on Pubmed yet, only I made the connection. In contrast, there are 4 articles about Erlotinib and Niclosamide synergy. So I suggest to try first adding Niclosamide and Fluvastatin to the treatment, but I have no idea what would be the effective dosage that wouldn’t cause serious side effects… 🙁
Maybe Daniel could shed some light on Niclosamide dosage? Keep Disulfiram for later, and only try 40 mg twice daily, then thrice daily if well tolerated.

About the current side effects… The bad skin side effects are a sign that Erlotinib is well absorbed, and also that it could cause other side effects, like liver damage (maybe the 150 mg dose is a bit too high?; and Zoledronic acid can also cause liver damage…). The pain after Zoledronic acid is normal, it’s caused by an increase in cytokines. Vitamin D3 should help (acute phase response is worse in those with vitamin D3 deficiency) with the pain a bit, and also prevent osteonecrosis of the jaw. Paracetamol (which also damages the liver) and low dose methylprednisolone could also reduce the pain.

I am only linking some of the articles I found on the matters above.

Effect of dasatinib on EMT-mediated-mechanism of resistance against EGFR inhibitors in lung cancer cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28213007
Non-small-cell lung cancer cells combat epidermal growth factor receptor tyrosine kinase inhibition through immediate adhesion-related responses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27284246
YAP promotes erlotinib resistance in human non-small cell lung cancer cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27409162
NSCLC depend upon YAP expression and nuclear localization after acquiring resistance to EGFR inhibitors.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28680534
Small molecules inhibiting the nuclear localization of YAP/TAZ for chemotherapeutics and chemosensitizers against breast cancers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26199863
Co-activation of STAT3 and YES-Associated Protein 1 (YAP1) Pathway in EGFR-Mutant NSCLC.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28376152

Alex
Member

Thank you so much Ovidiu. I will study this reply in the coming days.
Meanwhile i hope you will have a nice and warm christmass
Best wishes, Alex!

ovidiu
Member

@Alex: I suppose you were busy helping your mother, and that’s why you had no questions regarding the information in my previous post. There’s not much more that I can add, just this: inhibition of Stat3 can be also achieved with Metformin and Aspirin, maybe not as strong as with Niclosamide (in vitro). About synergy with Erlotinib (or reversing resistance), I found another two, Ganetespib (a HSP90 inhibitor) and Marsdenia Tenacissima extract.
The HSP90 inhibitor ganetespib potentiates the antitumor activity of EGFR tyrosine kinase inhibition in mutant and wild-type non-small cell lung cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25077897
Marsdenia tenacissima extract overcomes Axl- and Met-mediated erlotinib and gefitinib cross-resistance in non-small cell lung cancer cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28915640

Alex
Member

@ Ovidiu.
Thank you very much. Indeed i am caught up with all sorts of problems.
I have no life of my own. Everything is slow and difficult.
Looking at how my mother feels, i could say that the treatment is still “working”, especially when zometa is being added, however there are no tests or scans being performed by the doctor. The good doctor is overwhelmed with people all around the county. One doctor for an entire region in a clinic taken from a film out of the 80s. Drugs are missing all over. It seems we’re all abandoned. in TR Dragnea Land.
Still they do what they can with what they have. I wish i was rich so i could do something about the situation here for so many people.
I can’t thank you enough for your effort, and time, you’ve explained things to me with care and interest. It’s what i asked for.
I’ve managed to look into the things you wrote to me about.
You mentioned looking for a back-up plan. And with your help i’m doing it.
I have great news.
TAGRISSO® (osimertinib) is available in Romania on standard insurance with the government if the doctor agrees and the data points to it being required, just as with Tarceva (erlotinib).
As for my mother, i managed to care for her bed scar, it’s completely healed now.
She seems overall stable in person, but that’s all i have.
Even if i were to know more and should the data point to something going wrong, i would have to wait to see what the doctor is saying.
I’m in fear of being blamed.
But i am doing my part in getting a back-up, just in case. So i do what else i can, and it’s keeping her alive.
Thank you so much.
And thank you to all our friends here. Best wishes.
Alex

W.
Member

Wishing you strength, Alex.

ovidiu
Member

That Osimertinib is available in Romania and could be prescribed, that’s good news. However, statistics say that only about 50% of the Erlotinib resistance (after 10 – 14 months of treatment) can be addressed by it. I would suggest first to find out under what conditions the oncologist would prescribe it, does it involve a new biopsy, or is it some other way to determine if it would help (so you don’t waste much time waiting if Erlotinib stops working). Second, try to improve the odds of the current treatment and possibly “herd” the cancer towards the T790M mutation, instead of other kind of resistance to Erlotinib. From an article I linked above, quoting “Although dasatinib monotherapy did not reverse EMT in HCC4006ER cells, preemptive combination treatment with erlotinib and dasatinib prevented the emergence of acquired resistance via EMT, and led to the emergence of T790M”.
And keep in mind that Stat3 inhibition (with Niclosamide, Metformin, Aspirin, Pimozide etc) is also useful when using Osimertinib, since Stat3 activation is a resistance mechanism to it.
You could ask the oncologist about adding Fluvastatin, Niclosamide or Disulfiram to the current treatment, he / she may have heard something more specific, more clinically proven. IMO the most probable resistance comes from the EMT, and it doesn’t have to be complete, only partial, to induce resistance to Erlotinib. Some repurposed drugs can help inhibit or even revert EMT. I listed below some papers which could be useful. Besides drugs that could improve Erlotinib treatment, I found an older information (not for lung cancer, but it may apply), about the synergy between Zoledronic acid and All-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA).

Characterization of epithelial-mesenchymal transition intermediate/hybrid phenotypes associated to resistance to EGFR inhibitors in non-small cell lung cancer cell lines.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29262566

The ABC7 regimen: a new approach to metastatic breast cancer using seven common drugs to inhibit epithelial-to-mesenchymal transition and augment capecitabine efficacy.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28744157

Enhancing cytotoxic and apoptotic effect in OVCAR-3 and MDAH-2774 cells with all-trans retinoic acid and zoledronic acid: a paradigm of synergistic molecular targeting treatment for ovarian cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20673323

Alex
Member

Ovidiu, your answers to me are always full of incredible information and always right on the spot.
Thank you, thank you for caring, and for doing your best to help.
Please read my reply to ergin about my mother.
I cant paste the link so….. the other solution, i don’t wanna force it.
What i can say on top of that reply is that, she didn’t agree with adding things on top of the protocol, she wants to carry on with it and then switch to another. arguing that it’s how things are done, because that’s considered better.
And to be honest, it could very well be the case. or it couldn’t. So i don’t know.

I hope you’ll have a nice weekend
Alex

Alex
Member

Artificial Inteligence and diagnosis of cancer https://youtu.be/0PGgCpXa-Fs they are saying it only costs 1$/scan

Zebra AI1

Could IBM Watson, also be of help to us here?

Pouya
Member

I just read an story on FB that a doctor managed to diagnose his own cancer using an ultrasound app. what interesting about this is that there may be a close day where everyone have cheap proper tools at home to check themselves on a regular basis hence a better chance of early diagnosis.

Pouya
Member

this is pouya btw. I wonder if D can help me replace my username to my own name.

Alex
Member

great to see you around pouya

Pouya
Member

thanks D, I still have to use falconet to login but as long as my nickname is pouya it’s fine.

Alex
Member

Dear Daniel

Some people call everything they get via IV “chemotherapy”, and in fact that may be a good name.
Not taking metformin prior to chemo sounds very smart, but it could perhaps be useful to specify some chemicals.
It is the case that my mother is getting Zoledronic acid every 21 days and tarceva 150mg daily, for my mother and other good people who suffer from this horrible disease, may be more helpful to them if we have a higher degree of specificity and / or accuracy.
If i am right, (and i may not be) Zoledronic acid, doesn’t “care” if the cancer cells are highly active or not, it does it’s thing…. so on that day, and the days before or after, it may be wise to continue using metformin?
Not expecting an answer, i understand the problem is too complex. Only looking for an opinion on the idea of a more specific tip on treatments.

I wish there was a better way to say Thank you,
Alex!

Helga
Member

Dear Alex,

I apologise I haven’t responded to your latest note. It is great to hear that your mom is feeling better. I wish you and all of you a very happy and healthy new year, too!

Best,
Helga

W.
Member

hi guys,

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-11-decongestant-highly-effective-starving-cancer.html

NAC diminishing MCT4-levels – starving cancer.

NAC seems like a useful supplement – not to be used with 3-BP though…

EDIT: just seen that alternmed already linked this in another thread, decided to keep this here though 🙂

Aline
Member

Boa noite!
Sou nova aqui porém acho muito interessante todas as informações, minha mãe tem câncer na bexiga com Metástase no pulmão, peritônio, e estômago porém ela sente dores fortíssimas na lombar e na barriga não consigo controlar essa dor com Lisador e dipirona, dei morfina pra ela porém é a única coisa que faz passar as dores só que por três vezes ela sentiu dores forte no peito e tive que parar com a morfina vocês pode me passar algum protocolo ou algo que eu possa fazer para melhor essas dores ?

Google translation:

Good evening!
I’m new here but I find all the information very interesting, my mother has bladder cancer with metastasis in the lung, peritoneum, and stomach, but she feels very severe pain in the lumbar and in the belly I can not control this pain with Lysador and dipyrone, I gave morphine to her but it’s the only thing that makes you go through the pains only three times she felt strong chest pain and had to stop with the morphine can you pass me some protocol or something that I can do to better these pains?

Alex
Member

de mon expérience, vous pouvez essayer diclofénac ou aspirine + metformine avec de la nourriture 50 mg de diclofénac ou 500 mg d’aspirine + 500 mg de metformine pour 50 kg

Aline
Member

Obrigada, Alex vou tentar ela sente dores muito forte e nenhum analgésicos está fazendo mais efeito pra ela ainda não saiu a biópsia não sei o grau e qual o tipo de Câncer que ele tem, as coisas aqui no Brasil são bem difícil tudo demora ela fez a biópsia já faz 1 mês e ainda não saiu o resultado é as dores aumenta a cada dia, vou tentar obrigada mais uma vez 😉

Google translation:

Thank you, Alex I’ll try she feels very strong pains and no painkillers are making more effect for her not yet left the biopsy I do not know the degree and what kind of Cancer he has, things here in Brazil are pretty hard everything takes she did the biopsy already 1 month ago and still has not left the result is the pain increases every day, I’ll try thanks one more time

W.
Member

Hi All,

Seemingly disulfiram has serious anti cancer properties and not just because of helping zinc uptake…

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320281.php

W.
Member

Chemoterapy induced tumor debris (after apoptosis) makes the immunse system to release pro-inflammative cytokines

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320227.php?iacp

this is a vicious circle leading to cancer recurrence even if the chemo was effective.

They are trying to stop this with the compound “resolvin” and studies so far are VERY promising.

Omega-3 contains this compound

siven01@yahoo.com
Member

And how can we find out what amount of omega 3 is needed? In the studies you are talking about, there is a need for a resolvine (6 μg / kg / day) to inhibit tumor growth.
The article discusses resolvines (e.g., RvE1, RvD1 and RvD2) and omega 3 contains RvD3. Is that equally beneficial?

siven01@yahoo.com
Member

Hello everybody . I have a new question. My wife (colon cancer surgery, liver metastases, splenic, lung …) is now making the second line chemotherapy with Irinotecan and Bevacizumabum. I’m still looking after a complementary treatment and thinking about the mistletoe. I found a forum on the following forum:

“anyone with experience with this therapy. im starting this next month and heard it was realy good against chemo side effects, also helps the immune system and gives you a feel good exprience.
im living in germany so the health insurance pays this , apart from the first blood test they have to check to give me the correct mistletoe, apparently ther are 40 different types and without the blood check the chances of success are only 5%, and with 90%: costs 140 euro.”
Does anyone have any idea of ​​what blood tests are being spoken?

stefarteaga
Member

Hello Daniel, I am Stefany from Colombia ,
Your wife and you are true Angels, she from heaven and you here, both are instruments of God.
Greetings and a very special hug to all the members.

I want to tell you that my father was diagnosed with myoepithelial carcinoma in the submaxillary gland (an almost very rare) with metastasis in lung, liver, multilite in bones, we detected it a month and a half ago, we have not started any treatment yet, this week the oncologist told us that we should be ruled out that there are two primary tumors, suggested biopsy, immunohistochemistry and molecular of lung, which takes almost 3 months, we do not want to wait so long without doing any treatment.
In the search, we found the Cellumedic clinic in Marbella Spain where they perform Nano hyperthermia (€ 3,600 for 12 sessions) and dendritic cell vaccine (€ 25,000). We would like to know your valuable opinion about Nano hyperthermia.

On the other hand, we would like to know if you know about any clinic, center or city where realice the most important treatments that you suggest
Infinite thanks,
God keep blessing you.

Thank you very much

Alex
Member

Seeking suggestions for supliments or other things to strenghten organism in the case of paralysis due to tumor invasion of the spine and surrounding bone/cartilage. Low blood pressure, some incoherence problems, lack of sleep, deficiencies, treatment with tarceva and zometa, no exposure to sun, winter… and low carb/protein intake.
I’m interested in things that do good to the body, but no good to the tumor, some tolerance or uncertainty accepted.
I am thinking of the following:

Vitamin A
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3
Vitamin E
Pro-biotics
Selenium
Magnezium
Zink
Melatonin
Some mushroom blend low level dose
I’m thinking of calcium too but i’m not as sure.

Any supliment you would suggest? Maybe something you would take out from my list?
Looking forward for your suggestions, anyone.
Thank you so much,
Alex