High Dose Vitamin C & Cancer

Background:

L-ascorbic acid (C6H8O6), known as Vitamin C, has a variety of functions in humans, some of which are not yet fully understood. It was discovered in 1930 by Albert Szent-Györgyi (Hungarian, half Romanian by descent), who as a result of this discovery received  Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1937. Note, that Albert Szent-Györgyi is the same scientist who about 20 years latter discovered the anti cancer effects of Methylglyoxal, discussed recently on this website in the following post https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1471.

Vitamin CVitamin C plays a vital role in the production of collagen, which is the principal connective tissue protein found in tendons, arteries, bone, skin and muscle. However, humans can not synthesize ascorbic acid due to the absence of the enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase. Hence, in humans ascorbic acid has to be supplemented through food and/or as tablets. The two major forms of vitamin C in the diet are L-ascorbic acid and L-DHA. (Ref.)

Nobel laureate Linus Pauling began a long clinical collaboration with the British cancer surgeon Ewan Cameron in 1971 on the use of intravenous and oral vitamin C and as a result they proposed the use of high doses of ascorbic acid (> 10 g/day) to cure and prevent cold infections and in the treatment of cancer (Ref.).

The anti cancer mechanism suggested by Pauling and Cameron was essentially related to the tumor microenviroment. They argued that cells are normally restrained from proliferating by the highly viscous nature of the intercellular space and that cancer cells may escape from this due to an enzyme called Hyaluronidase which normally would be not there if enough Vitamin C would exist in the body. (Ref.1, Ref.2).

Its amazing how all things are connected. Just a few weeks ago I was discussing about Hyaluronidase in another post (https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1489) and now I realize that Vitamin C has one of its major anti cancer mechanisms related to the same.

However, in addition to this mechanism, Vitamin C has other anti cancer actions highly relevant which also supports its use next to chemo therapy. Indeed, it is widely accepted now, at least within the scientific world, that while at lower concentrations Ascorbic Acid functions primarily as an antioxidant and can protect cells from oxidative stress, at higher concentrations Ascorbic Acid acts as a pro-oxidant that imposes oxidative stress and induces cell death (Ref.). The specific mechanism that leads to its pro oxidant anti cancer action will be discuses in more details below, in the  “Mechanism” section.

In order to achieve the high dose required to exert its anti cancer action, Vitamin C has to be administrated intravenously. This is because when administrated orally, Vitamin C is absorbed only in very low amounts (Ref.). This low oral bio availability is also one of the reasons why some of the earlier clinical trials of Vitamin C in cancer have failed (Ref.).

As a side note, if intravenous administration is not an option, using liposomal vitamin C formulation may be a way to achieve same plasma levels of Vitamin C as that achieved via the intravenous route. Liposomal vitamin C can be bought online or formulated at home and administrated via the oral route. Here is a website where it is explained in detail how Liposomal vitamin C can be formulated at home http://qualityliposomalc.com/

Given its low toxicity and low cost, next to its serious anti cancer potential intravenous high dose Vitamin C was rapidly adopted by private clinics across the world to treat various disease including cancer. At the same time, academic research has been also preformed, indeed supporting the relevance of Vitamin C therapy in the the following areas:

  • Heart Disease (Low dose Vitamin C) (Ref.1, Ref.2, Ref.3)
  • High Blood Pressure (Ref.1, Ref.2)
  • Common Cold
  • Cancer (Ref.1, Ref.2., Ref.3 and many more)
  • Reducing chemotherapy side effects (Ref.)
  • Antiviral (Ref.)
  • Osteoarthritis
  • Treating allergy-related conditions, such as asthma, eczema, and hay fever (called allergic rhinitis)
  • Decreasing blood sugar in people with diabetes
  • Boosting immunity
  • High-dose ascorbic acid was also recommended as a treatment in surgical critically ill patients with septic shock (Ref.)
  • Etc.

After reviewing the literature, to me the following aspects are clear:

  1. There is enough scientific evidence to believe Vitamin C can kill cancer cells.
  2. Chemo sensitivity tests indeed indicate effectiveness of Vitamin C in about 70% of the tested cancer patients (see fig enclosed in the following post https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1321)
  3. There are multiple reports published indicating anti cancer potential of Vitamin C in humans (see below section “Case reports in humans”)

However, it is also clear to me that when zooming-out and looking not at specific reports only but at large number of patients treated with high dose intravenous Vitamin C, the anti cancer effects become less visible (Ref.). Yes, some patients benefit from Vitamin C, a few are even cured, but many need to search for others options.

So my questions is: Why this conflicting evidence? Why in theory and laboratory experiments high dose Vitamin C seems to be effective for most tumor types while in real life is effective only for a few? Why some Vitamin C treatments are successful and other not in patients that all should respond to Vitamin C based on cancer type and e.g. chemosensitivity analysis?

Off course we can argue that even if it is effective for a few that is still highly relevant since we are speaking about life and about patients that are left with no options. But my question is what do we still need to understand and do in order to increase the success rate of high dose Vitamin C?

One simple answer to the above question can be related to the Vitamin C source. It can degrade relatively fast (becoming yellowish solution) and preparation just before administration may be the best.

I believe, a major answers may be found in this paper, published in 2014 in the prestigious journal Nature: Extracellular iron diminishes anticancer effects of vitamin C: An in vitro study http://www.nature.com/articles/srep05955.

Essentially, the article argues that that the anticancer/cytotoxic effects of Vitamin C are completely abolished by iron existent in the blood as the Vitamin C reacts with the Iron in the blood before reaching its target, i.e. the tumor, which would be the case for most of the patients. As a result, the authors suggest that in order to increase the chance of success of the Vitamin C therapy, the patient would have to be treated with Iron chelators prior to the Vitamin C therapy. The authorst suggested the use of Iron chelator such as Disulfiram (a safe and FDA approved drug used to support the treatment of chronic alcoholism), but other substances such as Baicalein, an extract from a plant named Scutellaria Barbata (known to also have anti cancer effects specifically in breast cancer) is also an Iron chelator (Ref.). Whole plant Scutellaria is available online as a supplement. On the same line, avoiding foods reach in Iron before/during Vitamin C therapy may be a good idea. Combining Vitamin C therapy with Gallium therapy may be another good idea. Using EDTA IV to chelate iron prior to Vit C IV may be yet another good idea (Ref.1, Ref.2).

Next to this, due to the mechanisms of action, I think there are a few more ways to improve the chance of success for high dose Vitamin C therapy, which I intend to discuss at the end of the “Mechanism” section of this post.

In conclusion, high dose Viatmin C (intravenous) has a great potential to fight cancer while being cheap, accessible and safe. As a result I would clearly consider it as a part of an anti cancer treatment strategy. However, according to the discussion above, in order to get the most out of it I would pay specific attention at the source, administration procedure and the whole treatment strategy around that.

Note: After publishing this post, I have received messages from readers asking if I am not positive about Vitamin C. I am actually positive and as a results we are using it. But with this post I intended to highlight not only the potential of Vitamin C but also the challenges we need to address in order to make use of its potential and be successful.

Successful case reports in humans:

Effects of High Doses of Vitamin C on Cancer Patients in Singapore: Nine Cases http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26679971 Click here to access a pdf form of the article.

Introduction. Intravenous high-dose vitamin C therapy is widely used in naturopathic and integrative oncology; however, a study reviewing its effects has never been performed in Singapore. This article serves to document administration of supportive vitamin C therapy for cancer patients in Singapore. Methods. The clinical response of 9 cancer patients of differing stages to the regular administration of large doses (25-100 g/d) of intravenous vitamin C (IVC; ascorbic acid) is outlined. Tumor pathology and patient health were verified by doctors who do not practice vitamin C treatment. Results. Cases suggesting survival beyond prognosis, improvement in quality of life, safe coadministration with and improved tolerance of conventional therapy, and deterioration in clinical condition following withdrawal of vitamin C therapy are documented clinically. Some patients experience the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction—the release of endotoxin from microorganism death resulting in pimples, fever, and body odor—for a few hours after the therapy, but these are resolved quickly with no lasting effects. Conclusion. Randomized trials of IVC therapy are recommended because it has minimal side effects and has shown promising results.

Intravenously administered vitamin C as cancer therapy: three cases http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1405876/

Early clinical studies showed that high-dose vitamin C, given by intravenous and oral routes, may improve symptoms and prolong life in patients with terminal cancer. Double-blind placebo-controlled studies of oral vitamin C therapy showed no benefit. Recent evidence shows that oral administration of the maximum tolerated dose of vitamin C (18 g/d) produces peak plasma concentrations of only 220 μmol/L, whereas intravenous administration of the same dose produces plasma concentrations about 25-fold higher. Larger doses (50–100 g) given intravenously may result in plasma concentrations of about 14 000 μmol/L. At concentrations above 1000 μmol/L, vitamin C is toxic to some cancer cells but not to normal cells in vitro. We found 3 well-documented cases of advanced cancers, confirmed by histopathologic review, where patients had unexpectedly long survival times after receiving high-dose intravenous vitamin C therapy. We examined clinical details of each case in accordance with National Cancer Institute (NCI) Best Case Series guidelines. Tumour pathology was verified by pathologists at the NCI who were unaware of diagnosis or treatment. In light of recent clinical pharmacokinetic findings and in vitro evidence of anti-tumour mechanisms, these case reports indicate that the role of high-dose intravenous vitamin C therapy in cancer treatment should be reassessed.

A case report from Gangnam Severance Hospital, Yonsei University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea, published at the end of 2015:

We report a case of regression of multiple pulmonary metastases, which originated from hepatocellular carcinoma after treatment with intravenous administration of high-dose vitamin C. A 74-year-old woman presented to the clinic for her cancer-related symptoms such as general weakness and anorexia. After undergoing initial transarterial chemoembolization (TACE), local recurrence with multiple pulmonary metastases was found. She refused further conventional therapy, including sorafenib tosylate (Nexavar). She did receive high doses of vitamin C (70 g), which were administered into a peripheral vein twice a week for 10 months, and multiple pulmonary metastases were observed to have completely regressed. She then underwent subsequent TACE, resulting in remission of her primary hepatocellular carcinoma. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26256994

Here  is an article published in 2000 including several case reports, most of which lead to complete remission:

  • A case report on adenocarcinoma of his right kidney: One of us (HDR) reported positive effects of vitamin C therapy in a patient with adenocarcinoma of the kidney in 1990.4 This report described a 70-year-old white male diagnosed with adenocarcinoma of his right kidney. Shortly after right nephrectomy, he developed metastatic lesions in the liver and lung. The patient elected not to proceed with standard methods of treatment. Upon his request, he began intravenous vitamin C treatment, starting at 30 grams twice per week. Six weeks after initiation of therapy, reports indicated that the patient was feeling well, his exam was normal, and his metastases were shrinking. Fifteen months after initial therapy, the patient’s oncologist reported the patient was feeling well with absolutely no signs of progressive cancer. The patient remained cancer-free for 14 years. He died of congestive heart failure at the age of 84.
    .
  • Another case report in metastatic renal cell carcinoma patient publish in 1998: The patient was a 52-year-old white female from Wisconsin diagnosed with non-metastatic disease in September 1995. In October 1996, eight metastatic lung lesions were found: seven in the right lung and one in the left (measuring between 1-3 cm). The patient chose not to undergo chemotherapy or radiation treatments. The patient was started on intravenous vitamin C and specific oral nutrient supplements to correct diagnosed deficiencies and a broad-spectrum oral nutritional supplement in October, 1996. The initial dose of intravenous vitamin C was 15 grams, subsequently increased to 65 grams after two weeks. The patient was given two infusions per week. Intravenous vitamin C treatments were continued until June 6, 1997. An x-ray taken at that time revealed resolution of all but one lung metastases. The patient discontinued intravenous vitamin C infusions at that time and continued taking the broad-spectrum oral nutritional supplement. A radiology report on a chest x-ray taken January 15, 1998, stated that no significant infiltrate was evident, and there was resolution of the left upper lobe lung metastasis. In February, 1999 a chest xray showed no lung masses, and the patient reported being well at that time.
    .
  • for more case reports please read the following reference http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2000/pdf/2000-v15n04-p201.pdf

A 12 Week, Open Label, Phase I/IIa Study Using Apatone® for the Treatment of Prostate Cancer Patients Who Have Failed Standard Therapy http://www.medsci.org/v05p0062.htm

Purpose: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of oral Apatone® (Vitamin C and Vitamin K3) administration in the treatment of prostate cancer in patients who failed standard therapy.
Materials and Methods: Seventeen patients with 2 successive rises in PSA after failure of standard local therapy were treated with (5,000 mg of VC and 50 mg of VK3each day) for a period of 12 weeks. Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) levels, PSA velocity (PSAV) and PSA doubling times (PSADT) were calculated before and during treatment at 6 week intervals. Following the initial 12 week trial, 15 of 17 patients opted to continue treatment for an additional period ranging from 6 to 24 months. PSA values were followed for these patients.
Results: At the conclusion of the 12 week treatment period, PSAV decreased and PSADT increased in 13 of 17 patients (p ≤ 0.05). There were no dose-limiting adverse effects. Of the 15 patients who continued on Apatone after 12 weeks, only 1 death occurred after 14 months of treatment.
Conclusion: Apatone showed promise in delaying biochemical progression in this group of end stage prostate cancer patients.

High-Dose Intravenous Vitamin C Combined with Cytotoxic Chemotherapy in Patients with Advanced Cancer: A Phase I-II Clinical Trial http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4388666/

Phase I clinical trial of i.v. ascorbic acid in advanced malignancy http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/11/1969.full

Two patients at the 0.6-g/kg dose (one with prostate cancer and the other with epidermoid carcinoma) received greater than six cycles of ascorbic acid with stable disease (less than a 20% reduction and less than a 20% increase in the sum of the two perpendicular diameters of the target lesion and the appearance of no new lesions).

Mechanism:

Numerous reports are available in literature on cytotoxic and anti-carcinogenic effect of ascorbic acid and its derivatives in different tumor model systems. However, the molecular mechanisms underlying the anti-carcinogenic potential of ascorbic acid are not completely elucidated. Below are some of the major mechanisms that may be associate with anti-carcinogenic effect of ascorbic acid:

  • Pauling and Cameron believed that the mechanism behind the anti cancer activity of Vitamin C is the following:
    • Cells are normally restrained from proliferating by the highly viscous nature of the intercellular space.
    • In order to proliferate, cells must escape from this restraint by depolymerizing the glycosaminoglycans (including Hyaluronic acid) in their immediate environment.
    • This process is accomplished by the release of the enzyme hyaluronidase and is kept in check by physiological hyaluronidase inhibitor.
    • Hyaluronidase inhibitor is an oligoglycosaminoglycan that requires ascorbic acid for its synthesis, and perhaps incorporates residues of ascorbic acid. Note that the role of Hyaluronic acid in cancer was specifically discussed in a previous post on this website  https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1489 The authors argued that this hypothesis provides an explanation for the pathogenesis of scurvy. It explains the increased requirement for ascorbic acid that occurs in many cell proliferative diseases, including cancer. It indicates the existence of a basic underlying mechanism in many pathological states and suggests a common pattern of treatment. (Ref.)
    • Therefore providing Vitamin C, oligoglycosaminoglycan inhibits Hyaluronidase and cancer cells remain isolated, and at some point die.
      .
  • The second major mechanism refers to the pro oxidant action of Vitamin C and is the following:
    • Epithelial tumors appear to rely on superoxide (inflammation) which is produced by non-neoplastic stromal cells (Ref.) to oxidize the ascorbic acid (AA) to DHA (Ref.).
    • Because of the structural resemblance of dehydroascorbic acid (DHA, the oxidized form of vitamin C) to glucose, DHA can enter the tumor cells through the GLUT transporters and accumulate inside (Ref.).
      • Therefore there are two steps that have to happen in order for AA to exert its anti cancer effect: 1) stromal cells/fibroblast oxidizing AA to DHA by superoxide anions produced by the cells in the stromal (Ref.); 2)DHA to enter the cancer cells via GLUT1. (Ref.)
    • When dehydroascorbate acid enters cancer cells, glutathione turned the dehydroascorbate back into ascorbic acid (vitamin C), which is not allowed to move out of cancer cells, i.e. is not transportable through the bidirectional GLUTs.
      • This by itself is an anti cancer mechanims as the conversion of AA in DHA will consume glutathione required in the cancer cell to cope with the usual high levels of ROS in cancer cells
    • This ascorbic acid is converted to dehydroascorbate again and produces H2O2, which destroy cancer cells (via reaction with the elevated Cooper (Ref.) and Iron concentrations in tumors, leading to generation of ROS).
      .
  • Other relevant mechanisms:
    • high doses of ascorbate can reduce inflammatory cytokine levels in cancer patients
    • Antiangiogenesis effects: Suppression of NO (nitric oxide) generation appeared to be one of the mechanisms by which AA mediated angiostatic effects (Ref.)

As promised above here are a few more ideas to improve the effectiveness of Vitamin C (next to the iron chelation):

  • prior to Vitamin C administration, increase blood oxygen in order to support the AA conversion to DHA (e.g. ozon theraphy, etc.)
  • avoid sugar prior to Vitamin C administrations in order to potentially activate even more GLUT1 receptors through which DHA enters cancer cells
  • avoid any potential GLUT1 inhibitors prior to Vit C administration
  • avoid anti oxidant therapies around Vit C administration
  • include pro oxidant therapies such as 3BP, DCA, etc.

Pharmacokinetics:

Hoffer, et al. reported that when 1.5 g/kg of vitamin C was administered in humans, plasma concentrations over 10 mM could be maintained for 4.5 hours (Ref.)

Other relevant points:

  • pH influences the stability of ascorbic acid. It exhibits maximal stability between pH 4 and 6 (Ref.)
  • DHA is very unstable. DHA taken up or generated in the matrix must be reduced back to ascorbate, otherwise, in physiological conditions, it is lost within minutes.

Toxicity:

High-dose vitamin C therapy should be avoided in patients with renal failure or renal insufficiency, and in patients undergoing dialysis (Ref.).

Due to the chelating effect of IVC, some patients may complain of shakiness due to low calcium or magnesium. An additional 1.0 mL of MgCl added to the IVC solution will usually resolve this. If severe, it can be treated with an IV push of 10 mL’s of calcium gluconate, 1.0 mL per minute. (Ref.)

Synergy:

Vtamin K2 and K3 (Ref.1) Indeed Menadione is known to induce extensive GSH depletion (Ref.).

Combining a glycolisis inhibitor such as Vit C, with a mitochondria inhibitor such as Doxycicline seems to lead to great anti cancer effectiveness:  “Vitamin C and Doxycycline: A synthetic lethal combination therapy targeting metabolic flexibility in cancer stem cells (CSCs)” (Thanks Alternmed for the reference.)

IV Vitamin C Dose and Administration:

In General, Vitamin C is administrated at a dose of about 1.5g/kg/day, or in a range between 50g and 100g/day. Usually it is started at a lower level, at about 15g/day and increased during a few administrations to the target dose. In general, it is administrated 2 to 3x/week but for active cancers, an initial recommendation of 21 days of daily IVC therapy is used by some (Ref.).

iv_vitcThe Vitamin C solution is pushed in an IV bag and administrated at a rate of 0.5 g/min so that 50g will be administrated during 100 min. Rates up to 1.0 gram/minute are generally tolerable, but close observation is warranted. Patients can develop nausea, shakes, and chills. (Ref.)

For reference, 50g Vitamn C are administrated in 50o ml IV bag and 100g Vitamn C in a 1000 ml IV bag. Some clinics are using NaCl IV bag but in general it is recommended that for doses greater than 15 g, the diluent should be sterile water to achieve a theoretical osmolarity between 500 and 900 mOsm/L (Ref.).

Sodium ascorbate is clear and dehydroascorbate is yellow – so if the solution turn yellowish it means sodium ascorbate started to degrade. To avoid the degradation during the IV administration, the IV bag should be warped in an opaque foil such as aluminium foil (in case it is not already opaque.

Here is a good administration protocol discussion: Vitamin C Research – IVC Protocol https://riordanclinic.org/research-study/vitamin-c-research-ivc-protocol/

Using EDTA IV to chelate iron prior to Vit C IV may be a good idea (Ref.1, Ref.2).

Note: Sometimes combined with DMOS & B17 in the same bottle – “Manner Cocktail”

  • E.g. 9 grams of Laetrile [Amygdalin/ B-17], 25-50 grams of Ascorbic acid [vitamin C], 10-15 ml. of DMSO (Ref.)

Protocols referenced:
Cathcart: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/civprep.pdf
Riordan: https://riordanclinic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/RiordanIVCprotocol_en.pdf
Kansas University: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_EpU6QZ4EZtYWhFZEIxZGF6eEk/view?usp=sharing

(Thank you to my friend Fred for the links above, on the various protocols)

Here is an example of a treatment protocol when Vitamin C was used in combination with chemo therapy:

“The IVC infusion protocol was previously described [26]; it is based on a well-known protocol developed by Riordan et al [43,44]. Vitamin C infusates were prepared using ascorbic acid 500 mg/mL for injection USP (supplied as single-use 50 mL glass ampules) as a gift from Alveda Pharma Canada, Ltd. The stock solution was diluted in sterile water to achieve an osmolarity of approximately 900 mOsm/L. Any air bubbles formed during preparation were promptly evacuated. The solutions were delivered to the clinical research unit covered by an opaque bag, allowed to come to ambient temperature, and infused by calibrated infusion pump within one hour of preparation. Water and other drinks (preferably sugar-free) were provided and the patients encouraged to consume them freely before, during and after IVC infusions. The dose of vitamin C was 1.5 g/kg body weight when the body mass index (BMI) was 30 kg/m2 or less, and normalized to the body weight corresponding to BMI 24 kg/m2 for patients with a BMI > 30. The vitamin was infused at a constant rate over a period of 90 minutes for doses up to 90 g, and over a period 120 minutes for doses > 90 g. IVC was infused three times (at least one day apart) on week days during weeks when chemotherapy was administered (but not on the same day as intravenous chemotherapy) and any two days at least one day apart during weeks when no chemotherapy was given.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4388666/

Source:

Most compounding pharmacies including those listed here: https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?page_id=945

The price for a 25g vial – solution for IV – is around 15 to 20 euro.

Formulation:

If ready made IV Vitamin C is not available, the IV solution can also be formulated “in house”:

Dr. Cathcart’s youtube lecture on IV/C prep is the best tutorial on “do it yourself” IV/C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgi-7xPrCAg And an updated version of his written document: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/civprep.pdf

One of the best Vitamin C powder to be formulated for IV usage seems to be Quali-C brand. If there are better suggestions on other brands please let me know.

The best is to formulate before the administration http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9760591

References:

On the cytotoxicity of vitamin C and metal ions http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1983.tb07804.x/full

Cameron E, Pauling L: Ascorbic acid and the glycosaminoglycans. http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/224733

A new concept of a basic mechanism involved in cell proliferation is presented. It is suggested that cells are normally restrained from proliferating by the highly viscous nature of the intercellular . In order to proliferate, cells must escape from this restraint by depolymerizing the glycosaminoglycans in their immediate environment. This process is accomplished by the release of the enzyme hyaluronidase and is kept in check by physiological hyaluronidase inhibitor. There is some evidence that physiological hyaluronidase inhibitor is an oligoglycosaminoglycan that requires ascorbic acid for its synthesis, and perhaps incorporates residues of ascorbic acid. This hypothesis provides an explanation for the pathogenesis of scurvy. It explains the increased requirement for ascorbic acid that occurs in many cell proliferative diseases, including cancer. It indicates the existence of a basic underlying mechanism in many pathological states and suggests a common pattern of treatment. We conclude that ascorbic acid may have much greater therapeutic value than has been generally assigned to it.

Vitamin C in human health and disease is still a mystery? An overview https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-2-7

Stromal cell oxidation: a mechanism by which tumors obtain vitamin C. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10493506

Human tumors may contain high concentrations of ascorbic acid, but little is known about how they acquire the vitamin. Certain specialized cells can transport ascorbic acid directly through a sodium ascorbate cotransporter, but in most cells, vitamin C enters through the facilitative glucose transporters (GLUTs) in the form of dehydroascorbic acid, which is then reduced intracellularly and retained as ascorbic acid. Mice with established hematopoietic and epithelial cell xenografts were studied for the accumulation of injected ascorbic acid and dehydroascorbic acid. Most hematopoietic and epithelial tumor cell lines can only transport vitamin C in the oxidized form (dehydroascorbic acid) in vitro; however, when grown as xenografts in mice, they rapidly accumulated vitamin C after administration of radiolabeled ascorbic acid. The involvement of the GLUTs in vitamin C uptake by the xenografted tumors was demonstrated by competitive inhibition with D-glucose but not L-glucose. Because the malignant cells were not capable of directly transporting ascorbic acid, we reasoned that the ascorbic acid was oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid in the tumor microenvironment. Tumor accumulation of vitamin C in animals injected with ascorbic acid was inhibited by coadministration of superoxide dismutase, implying a role for superoxide anion in the oxidation of ascorbic acid. Whereas the epithelial cancer cell lines could not generate superoxide anion in culture, the minced xenograft tumors did. Our studies show the transport of dehydroascorbic acid by GLUTs is a means by which tumors acquire vitamin C and indicate the oxidation of ascorbic acid by superoxide anion produced by cells in the tumor stroma as a mechanism for generating the transportable form of the vitamin.

Intravenously administered vitamin C as cancer therapy: three cases http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1405876/

Cancer and vitamin C: a discussion of the nature, causes, prevention, and treatment of cancer with special reference to the value of vitamin C http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US8128113

Aspects of the nature, causes, prevention and treatment of cancer are examined with emphasis on the value of vitamin C. The view is put forward that routine high intakes of ascorbic acid play a role in cancer by increasing the natural resistance of the patient; resistance of healthy tissues to metastasis by a malignant tumor may be the most important element in cancer progress and outcome. Extension evidence (clinical trials and case histories) supporting a therapeutic role for vitamin C in cancer treatment, especially if begun early, is presented. Increased ascorbate intakes by healthy individuals may also act to prevent the development of cancer. A discussion of the mechanisms of action of vitamin C, including its function in the immune system, provides insight into how the vitamin may work in the prevention and treatment of cancer

Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor’s opinion http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php

Anti-cancer effects of vitamin C revisited http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v26/n3/full/cr20167a.html

Vitamin C was first suggested to have cancer-fighting properties in the 1930s and has been the subject of controversy ever since. Despite repeated reports of selective cancer cell toxicity induced by high-dose vitamin C treatment in vitro and in mouse models, the mechanism of action has remained elusive.

Vitamin C injections ease ovarian-cancer treatments http://www.nature.com/news/vitamin-c-injections-ease-ovarian-cancer-treatments-1.14673

A clinic, expect in Vitamin C administration: https://riordanclinic.org/research-studies/

Orthomolecular.com: http://orthomolecular.org/index.shtml

Ascorbic Acid and a Cytostatic Inhibitor of Glycolysis Synergistically Induce Apoptosis in Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Cells http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0067081#pone.0067081-Chen2

Vitamin C attack http://www.nature.com/nchembio/journal/v12/n1/full/nchembio.1995.html

Vitamin C halts growth of aggressive forms of colorectal cancer in preclinical study http://meyercancer.weill.cornell.edu/news/2015-11-05/vitamin-c-kills-colorectal-cancer

Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: Action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues http://www.pnas.org/content/102/38/13604.short

Human pharmacokinetics data indicate that i.v. ascorbic acid (ascorbate) in pharmacologic concentrations could have an unanticipated role in cancer treatment. Our goals here were to test whether ascorbate killed cancer cells selectively, and if so, to determine mechanisms, using clinically relevant conditions. Cell death in 10 cancer and 4 normal cell types was measured by using 1-h exposures. Normal cells were unaffected by 20 mM ascorbate, whereas 5 cancer lines had EC50 values of <4 mM, a concentration easily achievable i.v. Human lymphoma cells were studied in detail because of their sensitivity to ascorbate (EC50 of 0.5 mM) and suitability for addressing mechanisms. Extracellular but not intracellular ascorbate mediated cell death, which occurred by apoptosis and pyknosis/necrosis. Cell death was independent of metal chelators and absolutely dependent on H2O2 formation. Cell death from H2O2 added to cells was identical to that found when H2O2 was generated by ascorbate treatment. H2O2 generation was dependent on ascorbate concentration, incubation time, and the presence of 0.5-10% serum, and displayed a linear relationship with ascorbate radical formation. Although ascorbate addition to medium generated H2O2, ascorbate addition to blood generated no detectable H2O2 and only trace detectable ascorbate radical. Taken together, these data indicate that ascorbate at concentrations achieved only by i.v. administration may be a pro-drug for formation of H2O2, and that blood can be a delivery system of the pro-drug to tissues. These findings give plausibility to i.v. ascorbic acid in cancer treatment, and have unexpected implications for treatment of infections where H2O2 may be beneficial.

Oxalic acid excretion after intravenous ascorbic acid administration http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3482487/

In our study, ascorbic acid was rapidly administered shortly after the infusate was prepared, whereas parenteral nutrition solutions are commonly infused over 12 to 24 hours, during which time considerable ascorbic acid degradation is known to occur. The present data are important because they indicate a remarkable lack of severe hyperoxaluria after massive intravenous doses of ascorbic acid in people with normal renal function.

Vitamin C and Doxycycline: A synthetic lethal combination therapy targeting metabolic flexibility in cancer stem cells (CSCs)

Here, we developed a new synthetic lethal strategy for further optimizing the eradication of cancer stem cells (CSCs). Briefly, we show that chronic treatment with the FDA-approved antibiotic Doxycycline effectively reduces cellular respiration, by targeting mitochondrial protein translation. The expression of four mitochondrial DNA encoded proteins (MT-ND3, MT-CO2, MT-ATP6 and MT-ATP8) is suppressed, by up to 35-fold. This high selection pressure metabolically synchronizes the surviving cancer cell sub-population towards a predominantly glycolytic phenotype, resulting in metabolic inflexibility. We directly validated this Doxycycline-induced glycolytic phenotype, by using metabolic flux analysis and label-free unbiased proteomics.

Next, we identified two natural products (Vitamin C and Berberine) and six clinically-approved drugs, for metabolically targeting the Doxycycline-resistant CSC population (Atovaquone, Irinotecan, Sorafenib, Niclosamide, Chloroquine, and Stiripentol). This new combination strategy allows for the more efficacious eradication of CSCs with Doxycycline, and provides a simple pragmatic solution to the possible development of Doxycycline-resistance in cancer cells. In summary, we propose the combined use of i) Doxycycline (Hit-1: targeting mitochondria) and ii) Vitamin C (Hit-2: targeting glycolysis), which represents a new synthetic-lethal metabolic strategy for eradicating CSCs.

This type of metabolic Achilles’ heel will allow us and others to more effectively “starve” the CSC population.

Disclaimer:

This site is not designed to and does not provide medical advice, professional diagnosis, opinion, treatment or services to you or to any other individual. Through this site and linkages to other sites, I provide general information for educational purposes only. The information provided in this site, or through linkages to other sites, is not a substitute for medical or professional care, and you should not use the information in place of a visit, call consultation or the advice of your physician or other healthcare provider. I am not liable or responsible for any advice, course of treatment, diagnosis or any other information, services or product you obtain through this site. This is just my own personal opinion regarding what we have learned on this road.

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103 Comments on "High Dose Vitamin C & Cancer"

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Carl
Member

Excellent work! Best summary on this topic I have seen. Keep up the good work Daniel, please!

Paul
Guest

May I suggest a modification, in the second line top of page stands “Albert Szent-Györgyi (half Romanian by descent)” well, he was whole Hungarian and never had anything to do with Romania.

Paul
Guest

Transylvania became part of Romania after 1920, before that it was Hungary in a thousand years.This was managed by WWI peace treaty when Hungary lost 2/3,Germany 1/3 of their territories that among others gave us WWII.He was born 1893 in Marosvásárhely,Hungary. The city called Tirgu Mures officially after 1920.He or his parents had never lived in Romania.

Paul
Guest

You are absolutely right Daniel, if somebody is interested can check it out on Wiki anyhow.

Frank Liu
Guest

High doses of vitamin C to improve cancer treatment passes human safety trial.
O2⋅− and H2O2-Mediated Disruption of Fe Metabolism Causes the Differential Susceptibility of NSCLC and GBM Cancer Cells to Pharmacological Ascorbate.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/cp-hdo032317.php
http://www.cell.com/cancer-cell/abstract/S1535-6108(17)30062-4

Vitamin C selectively kills KRAS and BRAF mutant colorectal cancer cells by targeting GAPDH.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4778961/

Jcancom
Member

This newest generation of Vitamin C research is very encouraging.

Researchers are now reporting IV treatment resulting in 49 mM concentrations and therapeutically relevant concentrations that continue for up to 5 hours.
I will be very interested to see how these results and further extensions might result in clinical outcomes in people.

In terms of treatment duration, has there been reports where they could maintain within the mM range over extended periods of time (perhaps even days?).

lullabyman
Member
Jcancom- Good question. The original protocol administered by Cameron and Pauling for 100 patients was a very different protocol from which we use today. They administered only 10 grams, diluted in 2 liters, over the space of a day “very tentatively” (because nobody had done that before for late stage cancer), 5 days per week. The patients also took oral vitamin C all day. Although this rate (1g/hour) by today’s standards would be considered way too small to elicit a positive response they extended life by a factor of 4, on average. A dozen studies now demonstrate that the main… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
Many on the thread have followed the 3-BP story for quite some time. Some of these patients developed TLS. For 3-BP it is more a dose than duration problem. 3-BP can rapidly starve cancer cells of ATP which creates a very large amount of resulting cancer debris. I am beginning to more fully appreciate the value of Vitamin C therapy. It has so much potential and only needs to be exploited. For a treatment that is highly selective for cancer cells even at ridiculously high doses well into the mM, one does wonder why even better clinical outcomes have not… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
You’re right that ROS mediated cell death is perhaps the main cytotoxic mechanism, but there are a number of problems with that theory … mainly that above 1 mM one would expect cell death to be a linear relationship. To some extent this is true, however, the data is very messy. I’ve read every study ever done on intravenous vitamin C, in preparation for this book: IVCbook.com, and the one thing I must conclude is that IVC is highly dependent on a number of factors, and most of them point to the idea that ATP restriction is a major part… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
Oh MY!! Do you mean that no one ever actually replicated the original vitamin C results to the letter? They just sort of gave people vitamin C oral or fast iv and that was that? And here we are 45 years later, and someone actually read the original papers? ARGGGH! It’s just like D said about clinic dosing, they are watching the clock and at 4:59 PM they want to clock out. I mean if that’s the way it is, why not just set up a 24 hour round the clock at home iv infusion? Have any patients been dosed… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

Early research was with 2-Bromo-1,4-naphthoquinone.

lullabyman
Member
I’ve asked these same questions … in fact I had learned almost everything I thought there was to learn about IVC until I noticed this pattern of a number of studies that kept coming back to this idea of NAD depletion when I thought … you know, I’m going to find out exactly what that original protocol was and what exactly Pauling and Cameron observed. It does seem a little incredible that nobody has repeated what they did. In fact I suspect it has been done on an informal basis for someone who was bed-ridden and nobody documented the results,… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
Wow! Does this need any FDA oversight? Could you go DTC? Is high dose iv vitamin c, considered a medical intervention or perhaps only vitamin therapy i.e. outside of regulatory oversight? It would only cost $450 for one of those? We paid about $500 for an enteral feeding pump by itself. In terms of the business model, you probably would want to think of establishing something like this for your clients. There would be all sorts of tricks that they could piece together that might be nearly impossible for a company to learn by itself. It was pretty clear to… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
Anyone notice from the first paper from Scotland quoted above for vitamin C “the first 50 patients” that one of the patients that developed TLS had kidney cancer? Guess what kind? This patient did not even receive iv dosing but still developed TLS. The only one of 4 with TLS without an iv dose. ccRCC!!! Is anyone surprised by that? Remember from the compass thread “an apparent absence of mitochondria” ? I always thought that ccRCC would be perfect for an anti-glycolytic approach. No mitochondria –> vitamin c should have a large effect on ccRCC. Looks like this thinking was… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
Here’s another report of the 100 patients that includes some more insight: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC431183/pdf/pnas00040-0366.pdf I think the reason they didn’t suspend the trial with the TLS issues was (1) many of them were not expected to live more than a few weeks (the average survival for controls was under 50 days) in fact IVC qualifiers were that they had to be considered “totally hopeless” and “quite untreatable”, and (2) the overall outcomes for the IVC group on average were astonishingly good. Cameron expresses it was a matter of conscience to provide IVC for anyone who was a candidate because the average… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
Remarkable! The initial study from the 1970s clearly showed that vitamin C was an effective anti-cancer drug and this was obscured for at least 30 years. How could those arguing against it do so with a straight face and clear conscience when 4 of the patients developed TLS? This is a good point that was not highlighted nor explained enough in the first 50 patients article: how many patients first responded to vitamin C and then were able to be treated again by conventional therapies? The article noted that this was the protocol’s treatment algorithm. My thinking with the TLS… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

If it’s more duration than dose, I wonder about vitamin C subcutaneous injections, or liposomal, or sublingual.

1 g/ hour iv vitamin C is not that much (dose possibly used in the study). This might give 1 mM to start.
It has a half life of perhaps 2 hours, so continued dosing might gradually push up the molarity through the day (possibly a maximum of 5mM?).

Some of the other dosing routes might be able to hit similar mMs.
Perhaps liposomal or sublingual?

sirsna
Member

Hi Jcancom,
I already ordered some liposomal vit C .
Found this one – seems to be good reviews and cheapest I could find (includes 45g liposomal C)
https://www.healthmonthly.co.uk/foodscience_of_vermont_liposomal_c?search_string=FoodScience%20of%20Vermont%20Liposomal%20C

Looking for home-made liposomal instructions. Must get ultrasound cleaner for that and sunflower lecithin.
Also before high doses of C this must be checked
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose-6-phosphate_dehydrogenase_deficiency

My concerns is not to take to little to protect tumor and not to take too much to get TLS.

Kindly,
i.

Alex
Member

Dear Sirsna,
Should you decide to go ahead with high dose vitamin C, i can only hope that you come back here with good news.

My best and warm wishes,
Alex

lullabyman
Member
Hi Sirsna- Just be aware when reading all about liposomal, 2 things: (1) All the research on it resulting in higher than normal blood levels (up to cytotoxic levels, 270umol/L and higher), they used lab-validated sub-micron sized liposomes. (2) All of that research also used patients who did *not* have normally very low blood ascorbates (ie. not cancer patients). In my investigations (like on curezone) I’ve found that cancer patients have a very difficult time, if are able at all, to achieve the same cytotoxic blood ascorbate levels. It should also be noted that simply eating lecithin will improve the… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
I should also mention that all of the data demonstrates that cytotoxicity *begins* around 300umol/L, which Hicket et.al. have demonstrated can be acheived by healthy persons using liposomal C. Some cancers of course will require much more, and the consensus among most of the IVC experts (with some rare exceptions who happen to be on Livon Labs payroll) agree that you really need millimolar levels (1000umol/L) to reliably kill most cancers. It is true however that if a cancer cell so happens to munch down on a liposome of vitamin C it will kill that cancer cell on the spot… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
sirsna, this article was a good one! I hope that you also can see the potential of vitamin C. I was not sure before, though after what I have read recently it looks very promising; while the current approach of giving rapid infusions of huge doses of vitamin C has no obvious logic. Few of such treated patients will have a tumor response. The one problem is that there are so many unanswered questions. If vitamin C is as good as I think it is, then why has not become obvious to everyone? It has been 50 years! How could… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

sirsna, it would be a good idea to join the forum below. They are experts in the treatment of cancer with vitamin C. They were on the story about duration versus dosing 2 years ago!

They have an interesting product that could be very helpful for you.

http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/index.php

Jcancom
Member
Very exciting result! This thread (see last post) is claiming that very very high concentrations of vitamin C are possible into the mM. Until now it was thought that only 200-400 uM was possible. This thread used a glucose meter which can also measure ascorbate levels. They found that at about the 15 minute mark there was a spike with oral dosing to what I calculate as 2.8 mM (subtract the baseline finger stick glucose from the finger stick reading at 15 minutes (i.e. 128-177=49mg/dl ascorbate which equals 2.8 mM see lst post on below thread). This would be huge… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

sirsna, there is a member’s only area on the forum that I just suggested to you that has very specific and highly informed ideas about vitamin C and cancer treatment strategies. You will gain access once your request to join the forum is approved.

It looks as though this advice will be of considerable help to you. The people on that forum have direct clinical knowledge of these new vitamin C variants.

I hope this will help you!

sirsna
Member

Hi, thank You !
I am waiting for approval there…

Jcancom
Member

sirsna, I am so glad that I can direct you somewhere
that could really help.

When you gain access to the private cancer area there will be a whole bunch of things that you can see of interest. One of the things that this forum discusses is a liposomal vitamin C mushroom product that they suggest has powerful anti-cancer properties. As a guesstimate that should be truish, though you can take a look and see what you think.

Jcancom
Member

What do you think of the vitamin C Foundation forum? They appear to have a very deep understanding of a variety of vitamin C protocols with matching clinical experience. I hope that they can help you! There view on how to manage risk of TLS would be especially valuable. Best Wishes, J

sirsna
Member
Thank You, Jcancom for guiding to this vit c forum. There is concentrated very much information about vit C. There is still much to read for me there. As I still do not have port in my vein, it will be hard to do i/v C for all day long. I am looking for oral vitamin c supplementation, obviously, that could be liposoma c. I don`t know my vit c tolerance level, so will start to experiment. But after next chemo course, which must be in friday. I also must find some cheaper place where to order D fractionated maitake.… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

sirsna, you should read these posts. The forum has a cheaper option for D Fraction.

http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13042
post 1

http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12994
post 1

Jcancom
Member

This could be the how to use the FreeStyle glucose meter for ascorbate readings. Would want to first double check the reading with a simultaneous vitamin C blood test for calibration.

http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13540&p=50445#p50445
post 15

sirsna
Member

I called to all of my country`s laboratories and they do not perform blood c vitamin.

Jcancom
Member

Really?
I can hardly believe it!

Might need to do your own titrations with DCPIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTqHHgtc4cw

Jcancom
Member

sirsna, have you been successful in moving towards vitamin C treatment?

sirsna
Member
Hi! I had chemo week ago. It was few days delayed as planned. If the first chemo course was easy with fasting then this time I had hypoglycemia signs and my blood glucose levels prior chemo was 2,0 mmol/l and, surprise, after chemo blood glucose was 15mmol/l !!!, because, carboplatin is prepared in 5% dextrose (glucose) solution and not in NaCl. I did not now that. My oncologist says that in glucose some how it is better for absorbtion in liver. So next time it will go together with insulin injections. More than week after chemo I struggled with diarrhea… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

Wow! 2 mM –> 15 mM! How long did you fast before the treatment? Wouldn’t the insulin counteract the supposed benefit of the 5% dextrose?

I sincerely hope that the prolonged iv vitamin C dosing idea will be of help to you when you well enough for it.

Were you able to contact the vitamin C forum about their mushroom product?

sirsna
Member

Sorry, not 2.0 but 2.9mmol/l

sirsna
Member

and my blood ketons were 5.1mmol/l
I fasted not so long, 1.5 days. But I eat low carb or practically no carb.

sirsna
Member

Jcancom, how You understand “blood ascorbate” level (from PMID: 23885992) – does it matter, is supplementation of vit c consists of AA (ascorbic acid) or Sodium Ascorbate?

Jcancom
Member

http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13540&p=50445#p50445
Post 15

They are still working on this one, though you could double check with a blood test for vitamin C (if available).

sirsna
Member

Hopefully, I will have port after few days. That could be easier for me to manage some experiments 🙂 at home.

sirsna
Member
As I said previously, my primary cancer was highly with hormonal receptors (ER100%, PR80%, AR100%). Now liver metastasis biopsy came back ER5%, PR 0%. but they did not test Androgens AR, as previously they were 100%. I sent biopsy material to laboratory in Germany for AR and also for somatic gene mutation test. Lets see what the answer will be. Looking back with my therapy : in past 4 years my antihormonal therapy was changed for 4 different antiestrogens (Tamoxifen, Anastrosole, Letrosole, Exemestane). Last 3 antiestrogens side effect is that they boost Androgens in my body. As soon as they… Read more »
sirsna
Member

Hi!
Finally I got my blood results for Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase (G6PD). And they show that I have deficiency (6.6 U/g Hb), the normal range would be between 7.0-17.0 U/g Hb.
As I understand I should not go very high with vit C.

Jcancom
Member
sirsna, I would double check that. From what I understand G6PD is a recessive trait and is fairly rare in women of Northern European background. It was found to be more common in those from Southern Europe. This is from the Riordan Protocol: “Obtain baseline and screening laboratory: … c. Red blood cell G6PD (must be normal) …The G6PD level should be assessed before beginning IVC. (At the Riordan Clinic, G6PD readings have yielded five cases of abnormally low levels. Subsequent IVC at 25 grams or less showed no hemolysis or adverse effects.) ” Perhaps there are interventions that could… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
sirsna, I have been reading through the IVC book and the distinction betwen Sodium Asocrbate and ascorbic acid is noted. “​unlike​ ​ascorbic​ ​acid,​ ​sodium​ ​ascorbate which​ ​is​ ​not​ ​acidic​ ​doesn’t​ ​sclerose​ ​(ie.​ ​harden)​ ​nor​ ​damage​ ​tissues​ ​in​ ​any​ ​way​ ​even​ ​in​ ​full strength​ ​(sclerosing​ ​of​ ​the​ ​veins​ ​during​ ​IVC​ ​is​ ​caused​ ​by​ ​commercial​ ​preparation​ ​wherein​ ​the solution​ ​is​ ​slightly​ ​acidic​ ​with​ ​a​ ​pH​ ​as​ ​low​ ​as​ ​5.5), …” Sclerosing tissues does not sound like a good idea, so best to stay away from ascorbic acid. Book also mentioned G6PD. Best to check on this and do the test to determine… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
sirsna, I am glad that you are interested in the vitamin C research. I have been reading about it for the last few days and it appears that vitamin C is a broadly effective cancer treatment. However, it is not obvious how much time will be needed to fully realize this potential. The original research from the 1970s clearly demonstrated that it had anti-cancer potential in a wide range of cancers. After nearly 50 since these findings basic questions such as maximum plasma molarity after multiple oral and iv dosing are still unanswered. This makes vitamin C as a cancer… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

The vitamin C forum highlights this article as a breakthrough in understanding vitamin C.
PMID: 26350063

Figure 3 shows that the first half of glycolysis is upregulated and the second half is downregulated.
The first half is the investment stage and the second half is the payback stage. If this change in the flux of glycolysis could be maintained through time this should have a negative impact on cancer cells.

Jcancom
Member

D-Fraction Mushroom and vitamin C

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5344464/
PMID: 23341484

Jcancom
Member

D, could you help out on this one?
This article provides a two compartment model for vitamin C dosing.
Such a model would be very helpful for people interested in iv dosing; they would then
be able to have a good idea of what plasma concentrations would be present.

http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2000/pdf/2000-v15n04-p201.pdf

I am working through some of the pharmacokinetic equations though I am stuck on V1 (3.5 L?). If you are aware of the two compartment model, perhaps you could run the numbers.

Jcancom
Member

Sorry D!
I’m high maintenance.

This is great with the forum upgrade we now have
voting enabled! Everyone, upvote me! Not really sure how you do that. But if anyone can figure that out vote for me!

Most of the time I am not sure whether I am being helpful for posters or merely annoying. Please let me know.

Alex
Member

Looks good on my “screen”. I like the new layout and voting.

Please vote me for president lol.

I hope you all have a good weekend, wherever you find yourself to be.

Thank you Daniel. You’re eternally energetic, always focused. I admire you.

Alex
Member
only if possible with a few click please. Allow the user to delete it’s own post. Sometimes we can say bad things that we can later realize, it wasn’t right, correct, or have doubts about. And if we could see who voted up/down, like on those social platforms, that would also be nice, but again, only if it’s something that takes a minute or two to do. Maybe adding a thin border to all pages on the sides… from top to bottom Please, always feel free to ignore if not relevant. We’re being a little more optimistic here, so taking… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

D, when I go into the dashboard I am seeing all sorts of interesting features that could be available.

Google Analytics.
Heartbeat Control?
Multiple Rules can now be specified.
Support me on Patreon
Activate wpDsicuz Comment Author?
Start using Google Tag Manager? GTM ID

These sound great!

Jcancom
Member

Sorry D!
Did not want to put anything more on your plate.

alternmed
Member

hi d,
do you have an idea on who can be interested in attacking the website? and on what purpose?
it seems strange to me to attack this website unless u are unhuman ?

Jcancom
Member

D, I received an email that notified me that you commented on this thread that my IP had sent over 15000 requests to this site in the last 24 hours. I do not see this comment here.

I am not sure what might be wrong with my browser, though anything that you or others might suggest to me that could help solve this problem would be greatly welcome.

Jcancom
Member

D, I agree that we don’t want to spend time on that side of things, though when there is trouble coming it’s a good thing to notify others.

I did what I could on my end. I updated my browser settings. I hope that helps. Could you let me know if it does? I don’t want to crash your site!

Jcancom
Member
Making progress on the pharmacokinetics! Given: Kx=0.025, k1=0.353,k2=0.100, k2/k1=0.292 (From the article above: Table 2 and Figure 5) [Kx (k excretion) here is also denoted as kel= k elimination, k1 also seems to be denoted as k12, and k2 is also denoted as k21, thisis for a two compartment model] Here are the equations: alpha + beta = k1 + k2 +kx Equation 1 alpha * beta =k2 * kx Equation 2 alpha= (alpha+ beta)/2 + Equation 3 {(alpha+beta)^^2 – 4 *(alpha*beta)}^^0.5]/2 Therefore, alpha =0.473 hr-1 beta=0.0053 hr-1 Ct = A * (e^^-alpha*t) + B* (e^^-beta*t) Equation 4 Choose two… Read more »
Jcancom
Member

Article below had very similar values for k1,k2and kx for vitamin C. Also mentions alpha-lipoic and phenyl ascorbate combos.

PMID: 11384106

Jcancom
Member

A mix including vitamin C, lysine and others reduced metastatic activity. Lysine is though to be a collagen protecter.

PMID: 23885992

siven01@yahoo.com
Member
I go with my wife twice a week to a clinic, where she makes an infusion of 50 g ascorbic acid, magnesium two fills 8 ml DMSO. In the infusion, there is water for injections. From what I read on the net I can not figure out whether ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate should be used, which I understand is a salt of ascorbic acid. Those who use ascorbic acid do not perfuse it without tamping it until it reaches somewhere at 6/7 ph and if it is used without buffering, it leads to acidosis, so to tumor growth. What… Read more »
alternmed
Member

hi guys

this is must read ,because it s supposed to attack the stem cells
they are starting with doxycicline and adding vit c as glycolisis inhibitor,

what is supprising here is that they say the vit c is 10 ten fold more efficient than 2dg as inhibitor and 100 more efficient when associated with doxy

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-06-vitamin-antibioticsa-one-two-knocking-out-cancer.html

i m interested in knowing if any of us have used this protocol described in this article

thanks

Jcancom
Member

Repurposing ferumoxytol?
These iron nanoparticles are already approved and they appear to awaken the immune system.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/09/iron-nanoparticles-make-immune-cells-attack-cancer.html

lullabyman
Member

As I understand it, iron supplementation has demonstrated diminished efficacy with IVC. Iron is an essential part of the H2O2 production (a fenton type reaction), and it must be balanced just right.

Jcancom
Member

D, I think I’ll try out my comments in the back pages of your threads and if I receive a positive response then I can put it up on one of the upfront pages. Hiding treatments that could help others on the forum is not what this is all about.

Yeah, Ferumoxytol does appear to be fairly interesting.
First it is already available.
Second it might combine nicely with other immunotherapies.
Wonder if anyone has tried this in metastatic melanoma.

siven01@yahoo.com
Member

Hi, the wife makes vitamin c iv twice a week and once every two weeks chelation with EDTA iv. I bought today and EDTA capsules to take daily. Now the question: It appears from the leaflet that 3 capsules (3 * 800mg) may be taken, all at bedtime, on the empty stomach. Is that ok? Should I take EDTA pills and on the days that she makes vitamin C, ozone or hyperthermia?

siven01@yahoo.com
Member

I just found this article:
http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/the-business-of-chelation-and-why-EDTA-oral-chelation-is-best
I bought EDTA ProVita, which is EDTA disodium. Is it safe to consume 3 * 800 mg / day?

Jcancom
Member

There appear to be several ways to enhance the pro-oxidant strategy.
It would be very helpful if some of these ideas were to be tested in the clinic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854242/pdf/0100-879X-bjmbr-45-08-701.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5193408/pdf/pone.0168283.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26496207

Why didn’t they use iv vitamin C instead of oral in the apatone trial?
The oral vitamin C dose they used was minimal.

lullabyman
Member

Just an FYI … Dehydroscorbate is colorless. When you see any coloration what you are seeing are the byproducts of DHAA after it has further broken down. see http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01152a080

visvitalis
Member

Hi, I am wondering about high sodium intake when applying intravenous sodium ascorbate. Does it impair cardiovascular/renal function? Is there something we can do to prevent possible adverse effects of excess sodium? Thanks.

sirsna
Member

Hi all!

Need a consultation about doses and preparing of iv vit C.

I want to start iv vit C between chemos.
In my pharmacy there is solution vit C for injection 500mg/5ml.
What would be appropriate dose for starting – I am ready to start with 5g vit C infusion, then increase the dose. I can do it even every day or is it better to do 2-3x/per week?
So I take Sodium Chloride 0.9% Intravenous Infusion and mix with 10 ampoules of vit C for injections 500mg/5ml ?
Do I understand correctly?
PLease, advise needed…

Kindly,
i.

Jcancom
Member
sirsna, D has a great insight into preparing for vitamin c treatment. lullabyman’s link for the original vitamin C article is very informative. Notice how many of these patients appeared to have good responses. Four of them even developed TLS! You don’t want TLS, though it does show that these patients had very large responses. Notably with modern iv vitamin C protocols, patients usually only derive a modest benefit. http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/NHC/studien_pdf/old/the_orthomolecular_treatment_of_cancer.pdf The crucial idea that seems to have been lost from the above study was that it is more a question of sustaining iv vitamin c treatment through time than needing… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
Did not know where to post this, so I’ll do it here at the top, which means it will end up at the bottom, but better than buried somewhere in the middle. If you go to the bottom of this document you’ll find a list of integrations that will either diminish or potentiate IVC efficacy: http://ivcbook.com/ebooks/IVC%20Administration%20Quick%20Reference.pdf Many of them are not intuitive (it discourages, for example, many antioxidants for use in sequence with IVC), and it cites the studies from which these findings come. At minimum patients should be doing ALA. If the patient is unaware whether a supplement (even… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
lullabyman, this must be even all the more frustrating for you when you have these insights and it is so difficult to move it forward. From what i understand now vitamin C should be effective, though the right clinical trials need to, though likely will never, occur. Research with Mn porphyrin and vitamin C has been ongoing for many years and still no trials. Perhaps even a combo with paracetamol could help, though there again no trial and no way to know whether that would be truly safe and effective. Even still the idea that we have tuned into about… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
Yes, you’re right Jcancom, the resistance toward progress is debilitating in fact. I’m hopeful that if we can control enough parameters, however, and define the treatment to be tested in terms of the mechanism then we can better ensure proper protocols will be followed. For example, if we can deliver the exact medicine, ready to be used, with an engineered flow-rate for example, then it’s pretty hard for researchers to underdose for example, or used compromised medicine. That’s half of the battle and part of the idea behind the pre-filled pumps (and they do have an adjustable flow-rate valve that… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
From time to time we have noted combos that did not seem reasonable based on our understanding. The idea that treatment providers might have an intent of sabotaging outcome did not occur to me. One of my big disappointments with the 1970s research was that they attempted to create a theory that could explain the results. I think that often in science it would be best to simply publish the result as a descriptive result. Meaning they only provide the results without interpretations. In this way there is no possibility that someone might find that the purported mechanism of action… Read more »
lullabyman
Member
There will be a future for healthcare as long as there is money it in. 😉 It’s a delicate balance … and I don’t think greed is really part of the equation for those in alternative medicine … it has more to do with survival. You can’t provide your life-saving services without a minimum level of pay and it takes a great leap of faith to invest in a more efficacious treatment under the presumption that the better results will drive more people to you to make up for the loss in income. It usually doesn’t work that way, at… Read more »
Jcancom
Member
This is true about the need for a sustainable economic model in medicine. I also think it is helpful to remember that doctors provide care within a system that exhibits behaviors that they must simply accept. Those who do not want to accept such limitations have often been required to cross a border to provide the care that they feel is in the best interests of their patients. It is difficult for a scientist not to make a speculation about the mechanism, though it is humbling to remember how often such speculations have been. Even many approved medications have been… Read more »
lullabyman
Member

too true. too true.

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