I read that Chinese article where they use a machine with 3L/min HHO output (66%-33%). The max exhalation volume is 4-5 liters. But when you breathe normally at rest or when you sleep, you need only 20%-30% of this volume. That's 0.6-0,9L. I do not understand why exactly 3L/min.?
And also we don't breathe every minute
And also we don't breathe every minute. I, for example, take 10 breaths per minute. And 20% of my 3 L full breaths is 0.6 L.
So 0,6L x 10 = 6L Gas (66/33% HHO) This is the gas requirement per min. Or am I getting it wrong?
But I took a child's balloon and the actual exhalation was somewhere between 0.3-0.4L. Then I still need 3L.
@ropa If you wanted to replicate the Chinese study you'd want a 3L machine but that machine is very expensive. A few months ago I emailed the researchers of that study but haven't received a reply. The arguments supporting 0.6-0,9L capacity seem reasonable to me. But I have no experience or special knowledge about this type of treatment.
with the link address Forbidden
it is on medicalgasresearch biomedcentral com/ articles/10.1186/2045-9912-4-17
It is now scientifically established that 2% hydrogen inhaled is therapeutic, and at 2% the blood is saturated with hydrogen in about 15 minutes... When hydrogen inhalation is stopped, the blood returns to baseline (hydrogen saturation disappears) in about 15 minutes.
Once the blood is saturated, all excess hydrogen is blown out, so "more" (like inhaling 4%) does nothing.
For maximum therapeutic effectiveness, we have found that longer is better than more.
If you do more (higher %), the blood can't take more than saturation, so any hydrogen beyond what is needed to keep the blood saturated just gets blown out (wasted). Or i.e. a gas flow of 0.15-0.2 L/min. is sufficient.
Is that right. Or did I misunderstand the article?
Maybe they used such a high density of gas flow 3L/min that it penetrated into the brain where there were mts. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6927257/
@ropa I think you got that right. Here are a few interesting studies:
https://www.doctorsman.com/wp-content/themes/doctorsman_theme/pdf/ELMER-PRESS.pdf
Inhalation of 100% H2 produced by an H2 gas generator, even at low-flow rates, can increase blood H2 concentrations to levels that previous non-clinical and clinical studies demonstrated to be therapeutically effective. The combination of a nasal cannula and an oxygen mask is a convenient way to reduce H2 leakage while maintaining oxygenation.
https://www.keio.ac.jp/en/press-releases/files/2023/4/4/230404-1.pdf
Patients with cardiogenic OHCA who regained spontaneous circulation but remained comatose
were included in this trial. They were admitted to the ICU and underwent standard targeted
temperature management, with one group (the H2 group) inhaling 2% hydrogenated oxygen for
18 hours while the other group (the control group) received no H2(See Fig. 1). Their 90-day
neurological outcomes were evaluated by two independent neurologists. A total of 73 patients
were eligible for the study (39 in the H2 group and 34 in the control group). Unfortunately, the
study had to be terminated due to COVID-19, which caused a strain on emergency medical care.
Therefore, it was inconclusive as to whether the H2 inhalation therapy was effective. Nevertheless,
the fully intact survival rate after 90 days increased from 21% in the control group to 46% in the
H2 group, and the survival rate increased from 61% to 85%. These differences were statistically
significant, and no apparent side effects were associated with H2 inhalation in this clinical trial.
Estimation of the hydrogen concentration in rat tissue using an airtight tube following the administration of hydrogen via various routes
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4074787/
Hydrogen gas distribution in organs after inhalation: Real-time monitoring of tissue hydrogen concentration in rat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362202/
the present study reported on hydrogen concentrations and significantly various distributions among organs in rats exposed to continuous hydrogen gas inhalation. While thigh muscle required a longer time to saturate, the liver had the highest Cmax with considerable variation between organs.
Hydrogen gas distribution in organs after inhalation: Real-time monitoring of tissue hydrogen concentration in rat
in this article states "continuous inhalation of 3% hydrogen gas" - How do I understand this in relation to gas flow L/min? I'm studying HHO gas generators right now, and everywhere else it says only the flow in L/min
@ropa "Hydrogen gas (3%) was prepared using a hydrogen gas supply device (Nihon Kohden Co., Tokyo, Japan) and administered to rats with a rate of 0.2 L/min. "
3% hydrogen gas refers to the volume of hydrogen gas relative to the total volume of the mixture. And the flow rate refers to the gas that is flowing through the system within a specified time interval.
clinical effects of a low-dose 66% H2/33% O2 inhalation (flow rate 30–60 ml/min)
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2022.1025487/full
Conclusion: Inhalation of a low-dose H2-O2 mixture exerts a favorable effect on blood pressure, and reduces the plasma levels of hormones associated with hypertension on renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system and stress in midlife/older adults with hypertension.
Lowered cortisol, impressive!
I am now in search of the right gas HHO generator with the flow of mixture HHO L/min I have decided. I think the best option adjustable from 0.1 to 1L/min would be the best. What properties, design details are still important to pay attention to, when choosin ?
@ropa adjustable seems like a good feature, I'd also make sure to get a good quality device, maybe look for CE certification, and a refund policy or guarantee.
There will be no refunds and CE, that's how they will do it on my personal order. But it's mostly a copy of the brand-name. The Chinese mass-produced ones are very bad by all specs. Japanese expensive. Now I am studying the difference between PME and KOH reactor for hydrogen production. Anode plates will made of food grade stainless steel. Carbon gas filter and two Gas bubbler through water. What else to look out for.
@ropa I think most commercial devices use hydrogen gas cylinders. Durability and of course safety are important. I like a device like this one:
Adjustable but doesn't have the capacity you're looking for (up to 1L)
"This hydrogen generator is newly designed and represents the latest state of the art technology. It utilizes the latest technology from DuPont, which brings significant efficiency advancements and promises longer system durability. This Micro-Electrode Array (MEA-SPE) technology is smaller yet more powerful than its predecessor, the SPE-PEM. The membranes are arranged in a way that enhances performance and efficiency. It delivers the purest 99.999% quality of molecular hydrogen, just like the previous SPE H2 models. With the MEA's ability to produce more hydrogen with much less energy, you can expect your hydrogen machine to last longer and produce more H2.
DuPont's original breakthrough was SPE/PEM (Solid Polymer Electrolyte/Proton Exchange Membrane) technology. SPE/PEM ensured the purity of hydrogen production, whereas previous hydrogen production methods were not as pure and healthy. The MEA-SPE technology employs a stack of proton exchange membranes to achieve the best results. The MEA-PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) is currently the best version of the proton exchange membrane. The SPE/PEM electrodes in older generators were made of pure titanium. However, this latest DuPont technology (MEA) utilizes the highest-quality platinum-coated titanium electrodes from Japan."
