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Combo Metformin And Syrosingopine!!!! Looks Awesome!

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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

GgE, thank you for responding.

What was especially impressive to me was that Cana had an anti-cacner effect even without syro. Metformin did not have single agent effect without syro. I am very interested in knowing what the research would find with Cana. If they combined Cana with syro would it actually move down the needed dose even more? It is quite startling. The article said that it was using the same mechanism of action subunit 1 as metformin. Other research noted that Cana and metformin can be combined and they reported clinical results for this. In fact, there were large phase 3 trials that investigated this.

I think that it would be helpful to even establish that the como would be effective with a few doses of Cana and syro. Being able to turn off NAD+ processing clearly will have large anti-cancer effects. Seeing this first hand would be a powerful demonstration of this.

D, where are you? We await your comment.

 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

Ray,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28791253


   
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 GgE
(@gge)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 240
 

@jcancom

You’re welcome. Thanks for digging up this study. I think this is the most promising drug addition or change to the syro+metf regimen we have discussed here. It costs about $2 a day but there are no generics yet so getting it may be harder to get than metformin for most people.

More interesting info on Cana:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=(Canagliflozin)+AND+cancer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5833677/


   
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(@ray-donnelly)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 55
 

Thanks @jcancom. I'm wild-type on all *RAS, I guess this means vitamin C IV may not do much for me? I found this clinic here in Spain: https://www.marbellafamilyclinic.com/iv-vitamin-c


   
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(@ray-donnelly)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 55
 

Interesting research @gge and @jcancom:

> However, when glucose supply and thus availability of transamination substrates is restricted, cells depend on GDH activity for supplying the TCA cycle with carbon from glutamate40,41. ETC inhibition, e.g., by rotenone or antimycin A, diminishes the NAD+/NADH ratio, forcing pyruvate to lactate conversion (anaerobic glycolysis) and decreasing OAA availability42

Should we mess with NAD+ precursors?


   
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(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 215
 

@gge

The 677 paper is very wordy, but interesting.  I believe they are talking about depriving the cell of glutamine:

"This combined ETC and GDH inhibition obstructed glutamine input into the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle (i.e. glutamine anaplerosis). As proliferating cells are much more dependent on anaplerosis, this dual inhibition explains why canagliflozin is significantly more toxic for proliferating than for quiescent cells and considerably more potent than classical ETC inhibitors."


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

JohnnyP, you have done an extremely good job with clinically managing the treatment for your wife. Gradually dosing up, staying with the published research as it was applied to the mice and then following on with similar dosing as that of the poster on the Inspire thread all demonstrate competent clinical application. We do no have all the answers, though from what we do know and what seems reasonable this treatment plan wisely integrates our current knowledge.

My thinking had been that a metabolic treatment such as syro + met would show quite early response if it were in fact effective. This is the typical pattern of response we have seen with 3-BP and other metabolic approaches. When shutting off ATP, NAD+, or manipulating pH, ROS etc., responses can be quite rapid. With 3-BP, the first published clinical patient felt better within hours of treatment. Metabolic treatment can create very very rapid improvements. When I read back on the Inspire thread I noticed that the response was also somewhat quick. The patient noted that he felt better within about a month of treatment starting. Basically, this can be seen as a "slow" metabolic response in which there is essentially a gradual reduction in tumor mass as lowish doses slowly work down the tumor. In fact, this slower tumor response is a better way to clinically manage the illness. We have seen how dangerous it can be to treat with 3-BP once a month and then have extreme anti-cancer effects. Taking daily orals of syro and met actually represents a step forward in clinical management by avoiding large tumor responses which are very dangerous.

We will wait to see how moving the dose of metformin up towards what has been found effective in another patient might help your wife. Canagliflozin might turn out to be more treatment than is necessary (or safe). Perhaps this is the reasoning behind why the research has avoided it.

 

         


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@jcancom

here's (part of) this thread via RSS:

https://www.inoreader.com/stream/user/1005029157/tag/METF%20%2B%20SYRO%20COMBO/view/html

In this feed, I used a filter that removed a post I made unrelated to the topic. It doesn't include the entire thread b/c when I started the stream this thread was already on page 5 or 6 and I could only get the last 10 posts from the thread. If Daniel could adjust that this would enable us to load all posts in the stream and apply filters to keep it on the subject. The cool thing is that Daniel could just copy/paste a code snippet to embed it on the website.


   
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(@daniel)
Admin
Joined: 9 years ago
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@johan

Hi Johan, please explain what I need to do exactly and as long as it doesn't take much time I will do it tomorrow. Thanks.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 
Posted by: @jcancom

 

Another idea would be to allow remixing of thread content. This thread is now long and there are numerous off-topic posts (many of them are mine). What could happen is a post by any user could instruct the browser how to programmatically arrange posts into a hierarchical tree. The thread could then be reorganized for all other users to enjoy even if the raw unprogrammed thread state remained highly disorganized. This remix post might be permanently maintained at the end of the thread,  so that those who wanted a cleaned up version of the thread could click onto the remix post and be shown a version that organized the information effectively and efficiently. All of this could be done in such a way that those who were not interested in participating would not have to. It could be done passively in the background.  One could imagine layers and layers of programmed organization that could work in the background. One could also imagine that a remixed version might even be felt to be clearly superior to the original and would be the default when surfing to a forum

..........

For those who really are not sure what to make of all this, perhaps it would be best to wait for someone technically inclined to provide an assessment before we all jump on the thread user programming bandwagon. However, if this were to work out it would make the lives of many many people more productive.

 

@daniel

@jcancom

Hi Daniel,  my idea of the use of the rss feed comes from jcancom's ideas and suggestions to present the information in the forums in a more organized, accessible way. It's true that valuable information can easily get buried in a forum format, especially threads like this one. J's idea of a "remix post" is excellent, once the thread comes to a conclusion you could use a service such as the one I used, and use the filters to keep the most relevant information. Like J suggested you can then just add the link in the original post(and at the end), and you could even add the most relevant topics to the blog, you'd only need to create a new page and add a code snippet (i've quickly created a page on my blog to illustrate this, it just took a minute to create this page: https://tinyurl.com/tzdz3jz ). As you can see there are different formatting options in order to match any theme. For example, you could add a submenu on the blog (e.g. news & other - popular forum topics) and add a remix page there. 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

of course, it wouldn't be necessary to do this for each forum post, just the longer, and most valued threads. I'd be happy to create the feeds for you, and the ones you'd find suitable for addition to the blog, I could send you the code snippet and you'd just have to paste it into a blank wp page, with the added benefit you could add even more information related to the topic, on that page. BTW, each time the actual forum post is updated the stream will update to. 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

if you check the RSS "remix page" https://www.inoreader.com/stream/user/1005029157/tag/METF%20%2B%20SYRO%20COMBO/view/html

you'll see the last post is by jcancom, that's because of the filters. It's really easy to just keep the relevant information.


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

^

Very cool, Johan! Very cool.

I was all set to start my people's revolution for better threads. My slogan was going to be: Don't tread on the people's threads. The up arrow was going to be the official key symbol to alert software to treat a thread post according to the people's software programming language and to symbolize the people's resistance to software oppression (We would have had to argue out exactly what such a programming language would be like.). {I suppose metaphorically it could also be a symbol to represent where we are going with this: i.e., straight up.

A people's programming language might be somewhat more flexible and have more features (for example, we could have thread remixes that sent users to a web page that had a graphical interface, say for this thread it could be divided up into subtopics which could be clicked and people could directly the information that they wanted for example one link could subdivide the thread into "What dose of syro to use?", "Other combinations", etc.), though if they have already invented the wheel we might as well take it for a spin. The great part of all of this is that from what you posted with the url it does not seem like it will burden D or infringe on others adding their own RSS remixes. This is great. That was part of the people's programming language idea as well. It allows the entire process to happen in the background without anyone including the site administrators from having to do a lot of complicated and confusing software tweaking.

I investigate RSS, though I was unable to make any sense of it. The url you posted was great. It made the benefits crystal clear to me. Basically, if you can select only those posts that stay on topic, then we could rework our forums to be more on topic, while allowing people to post off-topic as they wish.

Good one Johan!

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@jcancom

exactly, this could be an easy way to get started with the remixing, and we could look into adding more of your ideas later. As you mention, it's important D doesn't need to spend time on this, he's got enough on his plate already!


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

Hmm, also very cool that the thread is now in reverse chonological order. (D was complaining recently that he had to scroll through many pages to reach the end of the thread. With reverse chonological ordering the most recent post is at the top of the thread. Another way to go directly to the page that you want is to simply go up to the url and change the number after the word "paged" near the end of the url.)

Johan, could you show us that you can remix the thread by selecting a few posts on a theme that do not follow in sequence? Perhaps the recent posts that talk about remixing the threads? 

It is amazing that this discussion could change the entire threadosphere. When I look around the thread space all the threads I see are pretty much the threads that we have here. On some forums the moderators are cranky all the time to people to stay on topic, stop being abusive to other posters etc. etc.. If they were to use the ideas we are discussing all of those issues would disappear.  The idea of a people's programming language still might be helpful, though we can start off with the RSS technology that you have suggested. I think that the thread freedom symbol ( ^ ) should be taken up by the global thread community to express their support for this substantial development in thread technology.    

 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

^

This is awesome!

This is the start of a better thread experience for billions of people online.

End thread oppression now. Join the cause by showing your support with a  ^ at the start of your thread posts, all over the threadosphere. A people's movement dedicated to improving thread communication and the lives of billions of people begins now!! This is an idea too good not to be rapidly transformative. Look around at all the threads online now. I know of at least dozens of threads and they are all based on the same poorly designed model. The benefits are simply too large for this not to go viral. All those trolls who endlessly disrupt the flow of threads and often introduce abysmal thoughts into the collective consciousness can be marginalized. If you believe in a better future and want to make this a reality    ^  

Johan, might you be able to assist me in applying the RSS technology to the cancer compass 3-BP thread. That thread has been almost completely unmanageable for quite some time now. Some pointers on how to go about using RSS or possibly you could just go over to the site and provide a url as you did above.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@jcancom

^ I'll get back tomorrow on the remix request!

 And I'll be happy to help with the cancer compass 3-BP thread 🙂

 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

I have noticed that a poster to this thread, Manuone, is treating with metformin combined with canagliflozin and was considering adding in syrosingopine. (Manuone, what dosage of canagliflozin are you using?) Fortunately, he does not appear to have pursued this treatment as yet. From what I currently understand such a combination would likely be very dangerous. My expectation at this time is that the tumor mass might completely shut down with such a combination. 

Given that canagliflozin monotherapy dosing can situate patients on the downhill part of the response curve, adding syrosingopine could shift the curve leftward and allow the existing canagliflozin dose to push cancer cell viability possibly to 0. Roughly, dosing with canagliflozin creates an environment in which there is no slack on the line; adding in syro would then result in reeling in under tension.  That much treatment power would be dangerous in relation to TLS.

This insight needs to be understood by those taking it and brought to the attention of those distributing syrosingopine in order that the risks can be disclosed to patients and minimized. We saw what happened with 3-BP without regulatory oversight; serious risks were introduced. To a certain extent a shadow FDA from the user community needs to arise to protect the self-interests of patients. Clearly responsible suppliers will provide this information to their customers. Perhaps the FDA could even put a black box warning on canagliflozin to alert patients to this risk.           


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

^

I forgot!

Thank you  for your support Johan ^.   I think that this is an important step forward for internet technology. I am glad that someone with technical experience can confirm my hunches and give confidence that this idea makes some sense. This will allow for others on the forum to also show  ^   support, knowing that this is an idea that makes sense as opposed to say perpetual motion machines etc.. I truly believe that this could help billions of people live better lives. Help us make life better  ^  

Thank you also for the offer on the 3-BP thread. This is great!

If we can post the RSS idea around people will see the benefits immediately! Give people free stuff! What are they going to say: "No I don't want free stuff" ? No, they will back up the truck. Here everyone, free wealth, a better life for everyone. I feel great! I have made (actually I guess it is actually Johan) Humanity better.

The threads, as they exist now, are not efficient. They do not effectively communicate ideas to people. This thread upgrade idea is an easy way to make people's life better. And the great part here is that typical posters can just sit back and cash their cheques (no effort is required). One additional feature that might not be totally clear yet is that the url Johan posted of the RSS feed could perhaps be posted by any poster. We could all post remixes if we wanted to, so it does not have to be something forced on people, from the top: this can also be something that emerges from the bottom. As Johan showed, adding a url into the middle of the thread could be done without hardly any administrator oversight (perhaps eve permission), so it will not be a burden for D to add this upgrade. Job 1 for this thread will be obscuring all of these posts about thread technology.

Thank you again Johan. This has been a big day. I wasn't totally sure myself whether this idea made any sense; apparently it does. Strangely, when I looked up RSS technology, many of the articles were suggesting that it was in decline. With this application, it could come leaping back! Why hadn't anyone thought of this before? 

         


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

^

I think I am starting understand a bit about RSS now. When I click on the RSS symbol at the top of this page, I receive a text file with the posts on this page with code. When I click on the RSS symbol of any page on this thread, I receive the same text file with the same posts. I can see what Johan means, there must be a setting limiting the RSS feed to some limited number of posts from this thread. What I also noticed was that with the text file it would be an easy matter to delete posts or perhaps fix typos, arrange the posts as you chose etc.. This is part of what I had in mind with the people's programming idea.  After editing the thread as you wanted then one could simply apply a url to the feed and you would be done. The feed would report the entire history of the thread. You would have a url that could be used to direct people to the new polished up thread! This is great! It is an easy idea that will make our life better. Perhaps posters could even be given their own individual RSS feed so that all of their latest discoveries could available to those interested.

While this is somewhat peripheral to our purposes on the forum and in particular on this thread, it will be of great benefit to us. Fortunately, most posters can look forward to benefits without a great deal of exertion.

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 
Posted by: @jcancom

^

 I can see what Johan means, there must be a setting limiting the RSS feed to some limited number of posts from this thread.

 

Exactly, the owner of the RSS feed is in control and can limit what he or she wants to share. Sometimes the limitations are also built-in, for example, the forum software may have settings that don't allow for the entire thread history to be included in the RSS feed, that's why I asked Daniel to check on this. 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 
Posted by: @jcancom

 

Johan, could you show us that you can remix the thread by selecting a few posts on a theme that do not follow in sequence? Perhaps the recent posts that talk about remixing the threads? 

 

Hi J, I reverted the remix back to posts on the topic:

https://www.inoreader.com/stream/user/1005029157/tag/METF%20%2B%20SYRO%20COMBO/view/html?cs=m

Forum posters could add the word "off-topic" to a post, which could make filtering fast and easy. 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625

   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

Ray, I am generally very unsure about many alternative medicines, though the more that I have read the more often that widely known alternative medicines seem to have plausibility. I was reading through D's list of OXPHOS subumit 1 inhibitors and came across Arctigenin from greater burdock which is an ingredient in Essiac tea.

I then read about rhubarb ( another Essiac tea ingredient) containing parietin, a potent inhibitor of 6PGD (6-phosphogluconate dehydrogenase) enzyme, which is somewhat off the main glycolytic metabolic pathway though perhaps still of relevance. Other ingredients might offer additional yet more direct glycolytic stress. This new information gives me a mechanism that makes sense. Dual OXPHOS and glycolysis inhibition is by logic a highly powerful anti-cancer strategy. Given all the anecdotes and the plausible mechanism of action, Essiac tea would not be a bad choice to have on your shelf, though it would be best to have a somewhat crowded shelf with other such treatments. Those posters who have had a more intensive sometimes around the clock treatment plan have done better than those who have been less aggressive.

 


   
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(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 215
 

@jcancom

J, Daniel, we need a list of things we can take NOW, the dosages, and where to buy.  Research papers are nice to study but the days dwindle down (to a precious few, September...sorry).  Please don't think I am ungrateful.  We need to act.  Throw in the kitchen sink, then study, to try to find a golden few.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

Hi John, sorry to hear your wife's condition is not getting better.  You could ask your wife's oncologist for phenylbutyrate, maybe they'll prescribe it off label. 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/490d/982783ef7a6cc91c8393327720b110dde8e7.pdf


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
Topic starter  

^

Sorry, JohnnyP. You are correct, we should focus more on our mission than on side tracks, though getting the informational organization on this website right is an important task. We have spent years and years generating many many treatment ideas though they have become deeply obscured by all the posts. On the cancer compass, in the first stage of our learning about cancer I would often run out of ideas. I was so focused on 3-BP. In this next stage of our learning we now have a very large number of treatments that have been investigated. A polypharmacy approach with a metabolic rationale has started to show benefits for patients.  Following the lead of the Turkish clinic we have seen that a multimetabolic approach using treatments such as vitamin C, hyperthermia, ketogenic diet and others combined can offer clinical benefit.  

Many of the treatments that we are interested in will possibly never have clinical trials. The syrosingopine metformin combination might be very helpful, though it is not completely obvious at what dosage level or with what combinations. I understand and share your frustration.

Essiac tea is one suggestion that might be of help. It is similar to the syro met combo and possibly could enhance its effects.

Kind regards, Jcancom   


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 
Posted by: @jcancom

 

Essiac tea is one suggestion that might be of help. It is similar to the syro met combo and possibly could enhance its effects.

Kind regards, Jcancom   

Hi J, please check on these 2 studies on essiac:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518418/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16541326

I haven't found anything in the scientific literature to support the use of essiac in breast cancer or any other cancer.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

John, since your wife is already taking metformin, adding curcumin and EGCg could significantly inhibit mTOR. Some of the best curcumin formulations are BioCurc®, CurcuWin®, Longvida®, CAVACURMIN®, TetraCumin, and Curcumin C3-complex®.


   
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 GgE
(@gge)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 240
 
Posted by: @johan

adding curcumin

I see a potential problem with curcumin: it is antioxidant. Syro+metformin use ROS to kill cancer cells.


   
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