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Combo Metformin And Syrosingopine!!!! Looks Awesome!

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John Pizzuto
(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 214
 

@gge

She has some phlegm but a weak cough.  Eventually, it works itself up into her throat, and she can spit it out.

No thought about accumulation of fluids elsewhere, or needing oxygen.

Thanks for the link to the trial.  I will check it out.


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 rgb
(@rgb)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 9
 

@haroldo-cazeao

Hi,
Apotheke Roter Ochsen AG
Vorstadt 50
8200 Schaffhausen
Email: [email protected]
aporo.ch

or China supplier. 


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 rgb
(@rgb)
Joined: 3 years ago
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I wrote to one of the team members at Univ. Basel. 

He’s answer: 

Dear Mr ...
Excuse me for writing in English and for the delay in replying. You are correct that the only source in Europe for syrosingopine is the Apothem Rote Ochsen, Schaffhausen. There are people who buy the chemical power from China but this is difficult to weigh out in milligram amounts for daily dosage.  

Unfortunately the syrosingopine-metformin combination has not been tested in human trials, therefore we have no idea of the starting dosage or even if it will be clinically active in humans. However some people have been taking it on their own initiative and have reported a positive response. If you are interested in you can check out this thread and the dosage used ( https://www.inspire.com/groups/american-lung-association-lung-cancer-survivors/discussion/syrosingopine-and-metaformin-kills-cancer-any-body-try/?page=1#replies ).

 I am not a medical doctor so I really have no expertise to give medical advice. However there are some doctors in Germany who have been treating their patients with the drug combination (Dr. Thaller, Markt Berolzheim; Dr. Puttich, Darmstadt). Perhaps you or your physician can contact them for advice.

 I wish you all the best in your treatment and to stay safe in this time.
 Regards

 

Note from Daniel: this post was moderated to remove sensitive names and protect those that are trying to help. Thank you for your understanding.

This post was modified 2 years ago 3 times by Daniel

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nissim
(@nissim)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
 

Dear @Daniel and all,

 

Unfortunately, I've been away from this amazing forum and amazing forum members for the last ~2 months, mainly due to my brother medical situation which became even harder to treat "normally" due to the corona virus and the fear of being treated in the hospital. During this time he got some seizures and also suspected edema (after strong headaches and nausea) which was treated for now with high dose steroids and higher dose of anti-seizures medicine.

We hope for him to feel better and praying to have stability in the next MRI, planned for next month.

 

I want to take some time I have now to add some information (see below), regarding the possible use of Metformin+Syrosingopine for gliomas and GBM (brain cancer), according to the information I got from one of the team members of the study in Basel university.

 

I hope this information might help someone.

 

Keep taking care and best wishes,

Nissim

 

The current research shows that expression of neuron-specific enolase (NSE, product of the the Eno2 gene) is a marker for resistance to syrosingopine-metformin therapy. Thus, cancer cells expressing Eno2 were unresponsive to syro-met treatment.

The reasons for this resistance is currently not known but was reported in the article from 2016 (see attached article - fig. S7 and S8) + some further unpublished data confirming this.

As NSE is highly expressed in gliomas and GBM, this unfortunately suggests the drug combination is unlikely to be of benefit.

At the moment this is just an observation made with cells grown in culture. The basis of the resistance is not understood yet and thus it is impossible to predict if it will apply in a patient situation.

 

On the other hand, some anecdotal patient case was also mentioned -

a doctor from Germany (Arno Thaller) was treating a patient with brain cancer for a year with syro-met (alongside other treatments).

As understood from this doctor, the patient's disease was stable with little to no progression. As the patient started developing gastrointestinal disturbance (which he attributed to metformin), syro-met treatment was stopped while continuing with the other treatment. Immediately after stopping syro-met, the patient started showing signs of disease progression (no idea how this was measured). Thus, the doctor also considered the possible re-use of highest tolerable dose of syrosingopine (patient was formerly at 1mg daily).

As can see from this exchange, it is difficult to say if one should generally discourage patients with brain associated cancers based on cell lines studied in a laboratory context. This would be a easier decision to make if the drug was readily available and cheap in which case it would be worth trying just in case.

 

 

 


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Manuone
(@manuone)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 149
 

Dear nissim,

I am saddened by the clinical worsening of your brother, I am also suffering from the difficulties of medical attention due to a coronavirus, I hope that your brother will soon improve
Thank you for sharing the information on syro-met, unfortunately my impression was that it would not cross the BBB.
Best regards


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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@nissim

Hi Nissim,

Nice to hear from you!

I was also a little away as I am working hard on the supplement company. But as soon as that starts to run I will shift back to here.

Thanks a lot for this very useful information. It would be good to find an effective ENO2 inhibitor. Methylglyoxal is ENO3 inhibitor but I do not have any in mind for ENO2. When I find time I will look into this but if you find any in the mean time please let me know. Thank you and all the best to you and your family!

Kind regards,
Daniel


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John Pizzuto
(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 214
 

@nissim

Cost of the drug from China, when portioned with a normal dose of metformin, is about $300 per month.

BUT, the research paper showed much higher levels were used, so we don't really know what is required to be therapeutic.

We don't know what the maximum safe dose is for syrosingopine, but say we need ten times the amount to demonstrate it works.  The corresponding dose of metformin would be intolerable.


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Bhârãt Çhaüdhãry
(@bharatchaudhary)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
 

@daniel hi denial can you suggest me something for TNBC and to prevent its relapse.


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John Pizzuto
(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 214
 

I was watching a new interview with Dr. Lewis Cantley.  It's about PI3K inhibitor used with SLGT inhibitor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ1VXqf5GO0

I will ask Shirley's oncologist for Piqray and empagliflozin.


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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@bharatchaudhary

Dear Bharat,

In general, from a preventive point of view, next to the diet and juicing I would think about using supplements or drugs from the following categories:

1. anti inflammatory drugs and supplements
2. drugs and supplements with a anti metastasis actions
3. anti cancer stem cell

Other categories that could be addressed are:

4. drugs and supplements addressing metabolic aspects
5. drugs and supplements with known direct anti cancer action
6. drugs and supplements supporting organs
7. drugs and supplements supporting the immune system

There are many that could be discussed here, but 3 drugs that I would consider adding as a preventive measure are:

1. Aspirin (anti inflammatory)
2. Cimetidine (anti metastasis)
3. Metformin (anti cancer stem cells)

Anti-inflammatory supplements that I would consider are Curcumin, Omega 3, Olive Leaf Extract, Boswellia serrata. For immune system I would add mushrooms, Vitamin D, probiotics.

In general, I recommend that you go through this summary https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/summary-of-this-website/ and for your awareness is good if you find time to read this post https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/community/breast-cancer/fenbendazole-mebendazole-for-tnbc/#post-1157

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Daniel

 


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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@jpizzuto

Hi John,

Nice one indeed - I like how Dr. Lewis Cantley speaks and it's nice to see that the conclusion of pharma industry is that they need to focus on cocktails of metabolic inhibitors. Canagliflozin could be one to use here https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/glucose-absorption-inhibitors-to-inhibit-tumor-growth/ in combo with phosphoinositide 3-kinase (Pi3K) inhibitors. 

On the same line of thought, you could argue that for those who do not have access to Pi3K inhibitors, they can a mTOR inhibitor such as Metformin https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/drugs-and-supplements-that-block-fermentation-and-help-fight-cancer/   and end up with a combo of the following:

- Metformin or Pi3K 
- Canagliflozin
- Ketogenic diet

Adding 2DG-metronomic or Phlorizin-metronomic to this should make it even stronger.

This cocktail should be able to achieve similar results as Dr. Lewis Cantley is referring too, i.e. life extension and maybe even the results that he experienced in the lab and he is looking for, i.e. complete remission.

Note: I would not use this combo without first getting on ketogenic diet in order to avoid the side effects related to glucose restriction.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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Matsim
(@matsim)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 12
 

Hi, all

I need help.

We using Syrosingopine/Metformin combination from litle more than 3 months already for NSCLC with EGFR mutation. We using 7-7.5mg Syrosingopine, 3x500mg slow release Metformin and about 100mg Aspirin daily. Aside from the combination, we using also Tagrisso from about 15 months, Febendazole from more than a year 222mg 3 days on, 4 days off regimen, vitamin D about 1500-2000 IU, some hypertension drugs(Telmisartan/Amlopidine). All for 60kg 71 years old woman.

Before starting the S/M combination we testing CEA every month and 2 months before the start of combination, the CEA start rising a little bit in 5.5-6 zone. After month of using the S/M combination the CEA marker was a little bit lower but around statistical error, still around 5.5. That was end of February, when we have a scan too, which not show improvement, but this was just month after starting the combination. Today we made a new CEA test which show 8,1, which is considerable raise. We will have a scan in the end of May, after a month.

It's seems Tagrisso is stopping working and the additional drugs, including Syrosingopine/Metformin did not help also. We considering to do some change in the regimen. One way is to change Aspirin with Diclofenac. We have a old pack 75mg Diclofenac at home with extence release, wich expired 2018, but take one today until decide what to do. It will help with MCT1 and have some other anticancer properties also. It might help also with a embarrassingly inexplicable tingling and pain in the leg that lasts 6-7 months already. We make scanner last time in the pelvis also, but nothing that can explain it appears. Downside of the Diclofenac are a very disturbing list of side effects. Most disturbing are cardiovascular risk, gastrointestinal risk and in combination with Metformin elevated risk of lactic acidosis. So, we afraid taking it more than a week, which is to short period and will not help, I think. Other way is to add Loratadine, which can help also with MCT1 inhibition with milder side effects. Third way is to rotate one week Diclofenac, other week Aspirin and Loratadine, but I'm not sure if it will help with this not consistent concetrations, while(if) lowering the risk for side effects.

So, if someone have ideas/thoughts, please share it, everithing will be appreciated. We want to do something than can be in help soon, as we have a scan after less than a month. We are not keen to use hard to find medicines or medicines for IV use, but if there are some brilliant idea according them, please share it too.

Greetings


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GgE
 GgE
(@gge)
Joined: 3 years ago
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Posted by: @jpizzuto

I will ask Shirley's oncologist for Piqray and empagliflozin.

If Shirley has the PI3K mutation and is still hormone positive then Piqray may help her. Piqray does not offer benefits otherwise.

I think that Piqray alone is not very effective. It gives good results to hormone positive breast cancer patients who have the PI3K mutation when combined with Fulvestrant (Faslodex).

Piqray is very expensive if her insurance doesn't cover it.

If Shirley has ever used a CDK4/6 inhibitor such as Ibrance, Verzenio or Kisqali then she could be eligible for this trial where she would get both drugs for free. It is enrolling all over the USA.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03056755

Following a keto diet and/or adding Metformin or the like to Piqray & Faslodex would probably give her a chance to be get a response better than the average

Thanks for posting the interview. It is most interesting. Please, post anything you find on this therapy.

These are some more papers on this subject

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1813904

https://www.cancernetwork.com/breast-cancer/alpelisib-changing-clinical-landscape-breast-cancer-treatment

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/resources-information-approved-drugs/fda-approves-alpelisib-metastatic-breast-cancer

https://www.verywellhealth.com/pik3ca-mutations-in-metastatic-breast-cancer-4689488


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toobs1234
(@toobs)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
 

Looking for ENO2 (gamma enolase) inhibitors, I only found SF2312, which is a recently discovered chemical never used in humans as far as I know. ENO2 inhibition looks very promising even apart from possible synergy with Syrosingopine. Hopefully someone will do a screening of existing drugs for ENO2 inhibition so we don't have to wait 15 years.


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toobs1234
(@toobs)
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Posts: 28

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John Pizzuto
(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 214
 

@gge

I sent the link to the video to our oncologist's office this morning.  I hope it is passed on to her.

Shirley has injections of Faslodex and XGEVA tomorrow, but the oncologist is working from home, so we will only see a PA.


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GgE
 GgE
(@gge)
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Yudaitheska
(@yudaitheska)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 32
 

@Daniel what ketone level is best when following the ketogenic diet if the patient uses metformin+canaglifozin+2dg? 


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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@yudaitheska Hi Yudaitheska,

I would need to check that with clinicians, but the easiest is if you ask Marcos or Manuel as I know they did combined these for long time.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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Manuone
(@manuone)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 149
 

@yudaitheska

Hi!
It is not easy to enter ketosis ... comment on ketone levels below 3 mmol / L in cancer. The most accurate and most suitable measurement is with a blood test using test strips. Antiglycemic drugs will help. Keto diet + 2 dg + metformin + canagliflozin, can be hard for many people. It carries a period adaptation sometimes called "ketogenic flu." I would use a mct oil to improve therapy https://ketosource.co/
This blog is one of many that offers information: https://perfectketo.com/track-your-glucose-ketone-index/

kind regards


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Yudaitheska
(@yudaitheska)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 32
 

@manuone Thank you! I will check that out. 


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Bhârãt Çhaüdhãry
(@bharatchaudhary)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
 

@danie thanks for your precious suggestion denial, can you suggest me how should I plan for dosage.


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Bhârãt Çhaüdhãry
(@bharatchaudhary)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
 

*daniel sorry for typo.


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Bhârãt Çhaüdhãry
(@bharatchaudhary)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
 
Posted by: @bharatchaudhary

@danie thanks for your precious suggestion denial, can you suggest me how should I plan for dosage.

and deni is it normal for 4inch  tumor and a lymph node measuring 1.5mm  to disappear in just second cycle of chemo. Or it can be combination effect of antibiotic drugs and fenbendezole i have given her.

 


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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@bharatchaudhary Hi,

 

Dose I would use for drugs:

- Metformin about 1000mg/day

- Aspirin 100mg/day

- Cimetidine 800mg/day (search more discussion on Cimetidine on this website as it may interact with other medication)

On supplements:

Curcumin 3g/day, Omega 3 3g/day, Olive Leaf Extract 1.5g/day, Boswellia serrata. For immune system I would add mushrooms (depends on mushroom and extract level but a few g/day), Vitamin D about 5000ui/day, probiotics (depends on the product type).

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards,

Daniel

 

 


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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@bharatchaudhary

Sounds like a great result indeed!!!, and it's very possible that the combo you used lead to such great results. Can you please give us more details on the combo you used (chemo type, drugs and supplements)? This may help others. Thank you.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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Bhârãt Çhaüdhãry
(@bharatchaudhary)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
 

hey deni

thanks for replying, the only thing i used is

-fen/mebendezole 300/150mg each for 15 days straight with vitamin e,pure turmeric powder straight from farms.

-and she is doing a protocol from patanjali Ayurveda consist of Giloy (Tinospora Cordifolia) juice,aloe vera juice and wheat grass juice.

and sorry i got confused the tumor size was 3 inch not 4 and lymph node was  2 by 2 cm.

and i don't know much about chemo drugs as she is getting treatment form a govt. hospital and the doctors there don't talk that much about these stuff.

 

 


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Daniel
(@daniel)
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@bharatchaudhary

Thank you Baharat!


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GgE
 GgE
(@gge)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 240
 
Posted by: @jpizzuto

I will ask Shirley's oncologist for Piqray and empagliflozin.

Did you choose Empagliflozin for any reason? Do you prefer it over the Canagliflozin that Dan mentioned?


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John Pizzuto
(@jpizzuto)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 214
 

@gge:

I think that's the one Dr. Lewis Cantley mentioned in the video I linked above.


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