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Atavistic Chemotherapy  


Jcancom
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Instead of posting ideas directly to patients in need it is advisable to first go through a discussion process here in the forum topics. This way mental pre-processing can occur at a distance relieving patients of the mental confusion can result from complex discussion.

Atavistic chemotherapy could benefit from such discussion. While it is listed on clinical trial gov which typically means that it is adhering to mainstream conventional standards of science and medicine, the trial has went past date and only has 2 clinical trial sites-- one of which is lead by the promoter of the therapy. Science blogs have picked up on this treatment and are describing it as quack medicine. There is clearly a promotional quality about it.

Yet, the treatments involved are highly familiar to us. Doxycycline, Albendazole, chloroquine etc.. -- these are not unknown to us. In fact, the highly publicized Fenbendazole is highly similar possibly even interchangeable with another suggested treatment in AC, Mebendazole. There is clearly quite a bit of legitimate science behind atavistic chemo. It is targeting clearly defined aspects of glycolysis and mitochondrial functional that should reasonably have important anti-cancer effects. The main contribution of this treatment approach is that it includes a range of anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-protozoan attacks.

Comments about this treatment approach would be welcome.


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(@j)
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unrelated but you're the expert, have you read this:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-019-0377-7


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Jcancom
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Good one, Johan! Wow, converting lactate to pyruvate could be such a helpful treatment. Lactate toxicity is a large part of what cancer is. Being able to manipulate this outside of having to resort to the body's gluconeogenesis etc. would be great. Yet, with this type of motor I would like to have a few more control points. for example if you just injected this into the blood stream then it would just continue to convert lactate to pyruvate even if oxygen levels were low that could be dangerous.  I would like to see the logic circuit to have an oxygen sensor and perhaps an off switch. A little micromachine that has intelligence.  

 

Here is another cell machine that I also found impressive. Consumes glucose, makes gluconic acid and oxygen.

 

 

This post was modified 6 months ago by Daniel

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Jcancom
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This article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29633614/


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Jcancom
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Thank you D! The url link did not show the picture just a whole lot of url spam.


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D gets to edit whenever he likes, we only once in a blue moon ? 


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@jcancom

 

exactly, it seems like a good hack and you could build on that


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Jcancom
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Johan, atavistic chemotherapy is therapeutically similar fenbendazole -- currently at the center of a global craze. There has been global scale panic buying of this dog dewormer. Yet, atavistic chemo is a more comprehensive anti-cancer vision than fenbendazole. Much of the power of a cancer treatment is lost when it is given as monotherapy without a larger integrated strategy.

While I have some trouble understanding the more mystical aspects of atavistic chemo as a treatment from the dawn of unicellular life in the universe, the ideas that cancer is highly related to very primitive energy generation (ie., glycolysis) and bacteria (ie. human mitochondrial endosymbiosis) are very difficult to dispute. Combining all of these anti-bacterials, anti-fungals and anti-protozoans actually makes a great deal of sense (aside from the somewhat obscure mysticism in the description of atavisitic chemo).

D was actually right on the money when he wrote exactly this idea at the beginning of his fenbendazole thread/blog without even the knowledge of AC. Putting all of these treatments together should be very powerful. Even as monotherapy many people are deriving benefit with fenbendazole. Having a comprehensive strategy including others that stop mitochondrial biogenesis/protein production etc. certainly would lead one to expect results: There is no need to be mystical about this at all.   


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Daniel
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@jcancom Thank you J. After writing this article at the end of 2018 I was indeed contacted by e-mail by Dr. Frank Arguello. So you are spot on, like always, identifying the relevant connections.

I learned in time that I should give a good attention to what you have to say, as you often identify good value, and this is another example.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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Daniel
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@johan is not easy to be moderator Johan. 

Should I extend the time for members to edit comments? 

Kind regards,
Daniel


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Jcancom
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D that is very interesting! There is this metabolic convergence that I can feel happening. People take fenbendazole and they notice it helps with cancer. Others, suggest doxycycline  and azithromycin with vitamin C.

And then someone comes along and suggests fenbendazole + doxycycline + -mycin + chloroquine ... . Everything begins to congeal. A more powerful and effective synthesis can emerge. It becomes very difficult to call this quackery because each of the separate strands by themselves have supporting evidence. It is like a building with a strong foundation: there is an increasing research base to support further development. 


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Posted by: @jcancom

Johan, atavistic chemotherapy is therapeutically similar fenbendazole -- currently at the center of a global craze. There has been global scale panic buying of this dog dewormer. Yet, atavistic chemo is a more comprehensive anti-cancer vision than fenbendazole. Much of the power of a cancer treatment is lost when it is given as monotherapy without a larger integrated strategy.

While I have some trouble understanding the more mystical aspects of atavistic chemo as a treatment from the dawn of unicellular life in the universe, the ideas that cancer is highly related to very primitive energy generation (ie., glycolysis) and bacteria (ie. human mitochondrial endosymbiosis) are very difficult to dispute. Combining all of these anti-bacterials, anti-fungals and anti-protozoans actually makes a great deal of sense (aside from the somewhat obscure mysticism in the description of atavisitic chemo).

D was actually right on the money when he wrote exactly this idea at the beginning of his fenbendazole thread/blog without even the knowledge of AC. Putting all of these treatments together should be very powerful. Even as monotherapy many people are deriving benefit with fenbendazole. Having a comprehensive strategy including others that stop mitochondrial biogenesis/protein production etc. certainly would lead one to expect results: There is no need to be mystical about this at all.   

@jcancom 

my comment in the other thread wasn't related to your post on atavistic chemo, (although I quoted it, I have no idea what it is) it was related to the Vit C admin in chemo-naive settings. I firmly believe patients shouldn't be advised to replace standard treatment protocols. I was reading today that Vit C could improve survival 20/30%, I don't know how the authors came to that conclusion, I certainly agree vit C could be beneficial, it has proven to be a cure in some cases. 

The thing to be mindful of I believe is that all this effort outside the boundaries of modern medicine shouldn't lead to a zero-sum result. There are people who make good money (online) discouraging patients to follow the standard treatments, it does make my blood boil sometimes. 


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Jcancom
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D, could you post the figure from the article above that I cited? It's a good one it shows a motor that converts glucose to gluconic acid with oxygen consumed and generated with MnO2. These are remarkable little molecular machines that with refinement could have large anti-cancer effects.

One thing that I continue to find disappointing with cancer is that there is still no treatment for the hypoxic aspect of cancer. This would seem to me to be one of the easier parts of cancer that could be fixed. One idea that has been suggested is introducing hypoxic bacterial that could not survive in the presence of oxygen. Taking away this hypoxic mess would be such a big step forward for cancer. It creates many problems such as a reservoir of cancer cells that are largely protected from chemo, and the disfiguring part in which large tumor burdens can grow. Removing hypoxia would likely greatly change the essence of cancer and would help focus research efforts on a reduced and less complex illness.


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Posted by: @daniel

@johan is not easy to be moderator Johan. 

Should I extend the time for members to edit comments? 

Kind regards,
Daniel

It's not a time issue at least on my end, in the 2 years on this forum I've seen that stubborn edit button only once. Don't bother I mostly joking, I joke all-day long.


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Posted by: @jcancom

Johan, atavistic chemotherapy is therapeutically similar fenbendazole -- currently at the center of a global craze. There has been global scale panic buying of this dog dewormer. Yet, atavistic chemo is a more comprehensive anti-cancer vision than fenbendazole. Much of the power of a cancer treatment is lost when it is given as monotherapy without a larger integrated strategy.

While I have some trouble understanding the more mystical aspects of atavistic chemo as a treatment from the dawn of unicellular life in the universe, the ideas that cancer is highly related to very primitive energy generation (ie., glycolysis) and bacteria (ie. human mitochondrial endosymbiosis) are very difficult to dispute. Combining all of these anti-bacterials, anti-fungals and anti-protozoans actually makes a great deal of sense (aside from the somewhat obscure mysticism in the description of atavisitic chemo).

D was actually right on the money when he wrote exactly this idea at the beginning of his fenbendazole thread/blog without even the knowledge of AC. Putting all of these treatments together should be very powerful. Even as monotherapy many people are deriving benefit with fenbendazole. Having a comprehensive strategy including others that stop mitochondrial biogenesis/protein production etc. certainly would lead one to expect results: There is no need to be mystical about this at all.   

@jcancom

I visited Mr Arguello's website, but have a hard time finding information that could help evaluate what he's doing. It says he's written a book but then when I follow the provided link to Amazon I find he´s book is currrently unavailable, which is rather odd in the age of digital information.

Then there are those pictures of some cases. Why would he do that? 

What are the drugs he's using off-label?

 


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