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Is Curcumin the Answer to Future Chemotherapy Cocktail?


johan
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8303331/

 

´Curcumin combination treatments were found to enhance anticancer effects, mediated by the multitargeting of several signaling pathways by curcumin and the co-administered cancer therapies. The preclinical and clinical evidence in curcumin combination therapy is critically analyzed, and the future research direction of curcumin combination therapy is discussed.´


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Johan,

Intersting article and in my case very relevant as i start chemo (docetaxel)  for my locally advanced PC in Jan.

I was surprised to see the very high dosages of curcumin  quoted in combination with chemo, up to 8g in some cases. 

Just wondered if this is associated with poor bioavailability of the products they were using and whether lower doses 0.5 to 1g of Liposomal based products might do the trick.

I was thinking of not only adding Curc to chemo but also fenb, quercetin and berberine as per Joe Tippins protocol.

Anyone have any thoughts. I also read that chloroquine also increased effectifeness of docetaxel


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johan
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@cl812271 

poor bioavailability is indeed a big issue with curcumin, but you'd probably need more than 1 gram liposomal. Daniel has a good regular C3 formulation in the MCSFORMULAS store, I'd take 4 grams of that product and maybe combine it with his pro liposomal formula.

EGCG is another supplement that might be beneficial in combination with docetaxel

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC3104695/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22283637/

 


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toobs1234
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@cl812271 

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is get expression testing done on your tumor biopsy and figure out what's really going on in your tumor. In my case (also locally advance prostate cancer) there are so many drug resistance genes overexpressed that chemo would have been a waste of time without addressing those issues simultaneously.


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Toobs.

I'll raise that with my consultant.  He is also getting me to take a PET scan ahead of chemo as well.


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nsturdevant
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hello,

Dr Mckinney suggests not to take curcumin with chemo. My son is taking irinotecan and temozolamide for ewings sarcoma relapse. Wondering if he should take curcumin on chemo days or in between....


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Hi not sure about anyone else's thoughts, but I thought I would drop the curcumin and just stick with Fenben, Berberine and Omega 3 in parallel with my chemo which will be docytexal and a 2 day fast pre and one day post chemo dose.


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Daniel
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Hi @nsturdevant 

As mentioned in my response by email, I would stop Curcumin approx 2 days before chemo and restart about 2 days after. Some cancer clinics come with IV CUrcumin even earlier. I would not worry about potential antioxidant action since there is quality literature suggesting actually pro-oxidant action at cancer cell level (see my post on pro-oxidants).

Kind regards,
Daniel

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Daniel
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Hi @cl812271,

I would stop anything that slows down cancer cells 2 days prior to chemo, including Berberine and Fenbendazole, and restart them (Fenbendazole, Berberine, others have to be discussed depending on properties) the day of chemo or as soon as possible.

Omega 3 I would keep it ON continuously as it is expected to help chemo.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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nsturdevant
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@daniel 

Should metformin also be stopped on chemo days?


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Daniel
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@nsturdevant I would stop two days before chemo (to allow cancer cells to be active and better targeted by chemo), and restart the chemo day (after the chemo already started to affect cancer cells) to help reduce resistance mechanisms. This is in my view the most effective use of Metformin.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Daniel,

I was including Berberine with Chemo as Jane McD is very positive about Berb alongside chemo in her how to starve cancer book. She talks about it being amongst other things a calcium channel blocker, which she says means that the chemo is held in the cancer cell for longer and increases its effectiveness. 

Have I got that right.


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Daniel
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Hi @cl812271

You got it right indeed in the sense that multi drug resistance pumps are inhibited by calcium channel blockers and that Berberine seems to have some activity in that direction too. This is a nice to have additional target. However, if we really want to target those pumps effectively, there are other compounds that have unquestionable activity towards inhibiting calcium channels, such as Verapamil, Tetrandrine and others. Typically, the antihypertensive drugs have such an activity. Of course, those are drugs, and they may be less accessible.

Kind regards,
Daniel


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Daniel,

Understood, as you suggest , i currently have Berberine to hand (your mcs supplied) ahd given that my chemo now 6 cycles of docytexal is about to start imminently,  I would struggle to get the other more proven drugs that you recommend,  so I think Berb is my only option currently.  Will this cause more harm than good do you think if i add at around 1g a day, before and during chemo.

Rgds,

Chris


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Daniel
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@cl812271 Hi Chris,

Thank you for considering MCS Formulas. I would like to avoid speaking in my comments about MCS Formulas products due to ethical reasons. So I would just refer here to Berberine in general. Just like with Metformin, I would stop Berberine two days before chemo and I would start it again the day with chemo. 1000mg sounds like a fair dose per day. In my view this strategy has the chance to cause more good (it works from all points of view along chemo line), while if taking Berberine continuously it can work both in the same direction and opposite (due to the related mechanisms).

Kind regards,

Daniel


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Chikitran
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Hello all,
What are your views regarding the administration of curcumin? Given the amount of capsules necessary to achieve 6/7g we would like to take... I was thinking of opening the capsules and add the powder to a drink or food (perhaps something fatty to aid absorption) and in that way make it easier to take a higher dose in one go.
Do you think the absorption would be compromised?

 


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johan
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@chikitran 

That's fine, definitely take it with some fat and avoid caffeinated beverages within 2 hours of taking curcumin.


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cl812271
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Thanks Daniel understood. I'll stop Berb two days before and add it the day of chemo and continue through the 3 weekly cycle.

Omega 3- 1.8g will take continuously. 

Rgds,

Chris 


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Chikitran
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@j  Thanks Johan!


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Daniel
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Hi @chikitran,

I agree with Johan. 

Kind regards,

Daniel


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Hi Daniel,

Just wondering is it still advised to take Honikoil alongside Omega 3 continuousl,  before during and after all chemo cycles.

And at 3g per day.

Regards,

Chtis


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Daniel
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Hi Chris @cl812271,

Honokiol is always best to take in combo with Omega 3, indeed.

As with Curcumin (many others from the category of "normal" antioxidants that often act in a pro-oxidant manner in cancer cells), I would stop Honokiol for a few days before chemo, and I would restart it a few days after chemo.

Super antioxidants such as NAC, ALA, should be stopped for several days before chemo and restarted about 7 days after.

Omega 3, I would keep continuously regardless of chemo (as it is known to specifically help that).

Kind regards,
Daniel

 


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Daniel,

I will order some from you  this evening. In terms of the mcs omega 3 dose, can i just clarify your suggested dosage.

In your original article, I think it said 1.8g per day as DHA. I think mcs is 0.3g DHA. Therefore i should take 6 mcs tablets per day to get my 1.8g DHA.

Regards 

Chris


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Daniel
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@cl812271 Dear Chris,

In order to avoid conflict of interest, I would like to avoid discussing in details MCS Formulas products on this website. If you have questions, about MCS Formulas products, please e-mail me and I will do my best to respond any question you may have on the products.

Speaking in general, indeed in my view (based on some case reports such as from Dana Flavin) it makes sense to use several grams of Omega 3 per day. However, I would take care since high dose Omeag 3 as many others supplements in higher dose, including Curcumin or vegetable juices, can act as blood thinners. This in principle is good, but when combined with blood thinning medication, it could be dangerous.

This is why whatever supplements or drugs I would use, I would always move towards the target dose in several steps and not jump directly to the daily target dose, In that way it is easy to identify whenever something is not good for us.

Kind regards,

Daniel


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cl812271
(@cl812271)
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Thanks Daniel,

Understood. As all my supplements are mcs and the dosages indicated on the bottles are genrally less than the ones quoted in the scientific discussions and papers, could i have your e mail adress to communicate in private.

Regards,

Chris


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johan
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Joined: 3 years ago
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@cl812271 

cd.stanciu AT gmail.com


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