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IVC and (or?) Ferroptosis when Immunotherapy only

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(@daniel)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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@j I totally disagree. Johan, again I have to jump in and ask you to balance your intervention here, otherwise better no intervention please.

I did not put this website together to be used in order to attack other people.

We can always express our views nicely.


   
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(@daniel)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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@j like I said, it's easy to pick up negative results about anything.

Just look carefully at the way the study has been design, and you will see it has been designed for failure.

I am not saying that was the intention, but I could tell you before starting it what will be the outcome.

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 
Posted by: @daniel

@j I totally disagree. Johan, again I have to jump in and ask you to balance your intervention here, otherwise better no intervention please.

I did not put this website together to be used in order to attack other people.

We can always express our views nicely.

Attacking who, D? I have done nothing but answer each and every question from @abidingtoday

Please ask @abidingtoday for his opinion before you accuse me of attacking anyone.

 

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 
Posted by: @daniel

@j like I said, it's easy to pick up negative results about anything.

Just look carefully at the way the study has been design, and you will see it has been designed for failure.

I am not saying that was the intention, but I could tell you before starting it what will be the outcome.

 

failure is one thing, hyperprogresion is another, D.

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

you just can't cherry-pick the studies you like and don't like. You have referred to Nature as trustworthy, why isn't it now?


   
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(@daniel)
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@j of course there will be hyperprogression. that was my point. look at the dose. do u know what that means, even more for patients with liver mets that will not metabolize Mebendaozle?

It's very important that we understand what we are looking at J. Not just look at the abstracts and conclusions of papers.

I am not saying I know everything, but I do work hard on understanding before making statements.

I do not agree with presenting only the surface of things on this website, as it dilutes my years of hard work. I do not have time to spend here to moderate anymore. 

So we need to be balanced in order to be able to continue the activity here.

Therefore, the rules are: 

1. No attacks towards others (active here or not) such as you just stated earlier "Anything either Joe or Jane recommend, I couldn't care less. They are charlatans."

You already attacked Jcom one year ago (we had an intensive discussion on that) and this is the second time when you start to move towards attacks.

2. If important treatments in cancer treatment demonstrated so far that could be helpful through published case reports and other studies (and also discussed on this Blog based on a good amount of research and often direct experience) are suggested not work, such as Mbendazole, that should be done with extensive support and in depth analysis. Otherwise, in my view, it will represent misinformation.

For example, presenting the article on Mebnedaozle and just proposing with that directly or indirectly, that mebendazole could actually trigger worse outcome is misleading. That is because the dose used in the study it is obviously at a very high level compared to that demonstrated to add value in humans. Somebody, seeing info shared such as the article you posted, from somebody allowed to be an active contributor here, in the context you did, would be afraid to consider Mebendaozle as part of his/her treatments even if his/her doctor would recommend, while it could have added value to the patient life when used at a dose of e.g. 200mg to 500mg/day.

If such info would be added by visitors in passing, I would understand. But I cannot accept this from active contributors on this website. Allowing this to happen would mean I agree with the approach, but I dont.

Thanks for understanding.

 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

Sorry D.

I'm considering adopting a cat, I´ve heard it helps to become more balanced.


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

I appreciate the help you’ve given Johan. Metformin, antiparasitic, and curcumin are all an important part of the approach we are taking. While I desire so much to have information and to learn, today was overwhelming for me. I came into the day questioning resveratrol and genistein - possibly rightfully so - as my mother has a new issue called melasma which may be related to the more hormonal supplements. But now, the protocol I felt such confidence in… I’m just confused. It’s not because of you - it’s largely related to the symptoms she is having the past several days and today, and the recent changes I’ve made fairly quickly. I keep being brought back again and again to how much I don’t know. I am a second-guesser, and after today and new symptoms and new information, I am second guessing too many things. I can make modifications, but I don’t think I am ready to seriously question almost every major drug and supplement in my plan at this moment. I think at this point, it may be best for me to circle back around. I came here to talk about IVC, and landed on oral vitamin C 3g 4x daily. I’m still not certain of whether it’s a good or a bad idea based on my current plan and considering that I am not stopping the GLUT1 inhibitors while giving it. I haven’t seen it recommended highly here besides in comments. I know where you stand on this; and I understand that Daniel cannot give his input at this juncture. I think I need some sleep and to approach this with new eyes and a rested body tomorrow. If I’m not sure what to do then, the best answer may be to stop. But I will wait until my mind is more clear I make that decision. Thank you again for you help. Also I am a she, not he, haha. A mother, helping my mother ☺️ Good night!


   
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(@daniel)
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Dear @abidingtoday,

I am sorry I did not have the time to respond, but I have too much to work on every day. However, I will do my best to give you my feedback. Although you may have addressed this before, can you please let me know the following:

1. tumor type, location and approx size (when diagnosed and today)
2. treatment performed (conventional and alternative, oral and IV, drugs and supplements) including daily dose (past and what is being used at this point)
3. plans for the next steps (yours and that of the oncologist)

This should give me a view good enough to be able to think and help with some ideas. However, if you do not like to go through all these, please let me know what are your specific questions at this point that will help you get more clarity on what feels unclear.

Thank you.

Kind regards,
Daniel


   
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(@dumbcritic)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 125
 

@abidingtoday What Joe Tippens seems to have left out was that he took part in a clinical trial (testing Keytruda* +/- other approved drugs), while also taking fenbendazole, curcumin, CBD oil and Vit E.

 

* In one trial, the main efficacy outcome measures were overall response rate and duration of response (modified RECIST v1.1) assessed by a blinded independent central review team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Response_evaluation_criteria_in_solid_tumors

 

The overall response rate was 19% and complete response rate was 2%. Responses were durable for six months or longer in 94%, twelve months or longer in 63%, and eighteen months or longer in 56% of the sixteen responding patients.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
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This started as a discussion on vitamin C, and intravenous Vitamin C in particular. It is said by so many that Linus Pauling himself was a proponent of IVC. I've attached a picture of my Kindle which shows a page from Jane M's book where she makes that same erroneous statement. I think in this thread we've shown that this is not true, this is not how Pauling suggested we should use vitamin C.  In an interview with Dr. Jeffrey Bland in 1982, Linus Pauling talks about the benefit of vitamin C for heart disease and cancer but not once mentions IVC. In that interview, Linus Pauling says he takes 12 grams of ascorbic acid crystals a day, a dosage he thinks is optimal but goes on to say that any amount below that dose even 500mg a day would be beneficial for general health. At a seminar in 1993, a year before his death at age 93, he was taking 18 grams of vitamin C (reference). 

 

 


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

Delete post at the request of the user. Daniel will respond by e-mail.

This post was modified 2 years ago by Daniel

   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

@daniel Also, Mom just turned 69, and this is stage 4 cancer. Her oncologist is treating her palliatively, not to cure. She feels great and is currently having very little pain except a teeny bit in her lower back every couple of days and recently a little pain in her main tumor area which has subsided. I did just start her on the oral C last week which made her feel even better.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

@abidingtoday 

inositol +  rapamycin

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35147705/

 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
 

Abiding, sorry I have not been active on forum for a while; I have been diving into the oceans of cancer research -- it truly feels almost infinite. There is still so much that has yet to be explored. I have jumped around a fair amount lately: here are some of the things that I found interesting.

COSMIC-- I started out looking into the COSMIC database. You mentioned that you had a G12D mutation so I wanted to have a better understanding of that and other mutants. You can use the below url to look at the result for KRAS and you can scroll down to the Variants section -- use the arrows beside the count column and when you click them one or two times you should see that the G12D mutation is right at the top of the list. There are in total ~623 mutants that have been found in KRAS! The number of mutants that have been found in these projects is startling. The think the total number they got to was ~12 million!

https://cancer.sanger.ac.uk/cosmic/gene/analysis?ln=KRAS

I looked around the FDA site and a wide range of mutation specific treatments have been approved. They have applied really top notch chemistry and have found ways to use small molecules to overcome protein defects.  The problem that we have noted on several occasions on forum is that this approach typically does not creating lasting responses.

The BRAF drugs were considered wonder drugs only 10 years ago; they were highly targeted to the V300E mutant and there was elation in medical offices as these cancers seemed to melt away under treatment. What is now known is that a majority of these patients will relapse with about 1 year. This seems to be mostly true for most of these highly targeted treatments. One can eliminate all the cancer cells with the mutant, and then what can be done with the those few cancer cells that do not have the mutation? The treatment has created a very powerful evolutionary selection process to find those cancer cells that do not have the variant. Interestingly, recent BRAF research has found that the post-treatment cancer has then been driven to an OXPHOS dominant phenotype that could be approached with metabolic type treatment!

It is possible that the targeted approach might still somehow work out; perhaps if you had 100 or 200 targeted drugs for the main mutations, then the cancer could at some point just run out of adaptive ability, though this is not entirely clear.

I then read about the new frontier of full genome tumor sequencing. Tumors have many many mutants. Finding all the present mutants could be very very helpful. Instead of thinking in terms of possibly less than 10 reported variants one could be given a list of hundreds or more. Apparently even now this is considered the leading edge. With such a list one might be able to apply very large metabolic stress. Think of the cell as a truly vast metabolic map-- I was dazzled by the intricacy of this one

http://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1

With all of these hundreds and hundreds of connections cancer introduces all sorts of new mutations. If you know what the cancer mutation is then you have a chance of capitalizing on it. It could be a seemingly non-consequential error in perhaps even some obscure enzyme- yet this could cause the cancer enormous problems. I read about amino acids. There are a number of non-essential amino acids. Normal cells can just make them if they are not included in the diet. With cancer sometimes it is not so easy. Sometimes cancer has a mutation in one of the genes that make the non-essential amino acids. This can put cancer cells under large amounts of stress. It would need expertise, though going on a restricted diet could then make sense. Take away nutrients that normal cells can make themselves and see what happens to the cancer.

In terms of setting up your treatment protocol probably the best that anyone on forum has produced to date is that of Marcos   https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/community/forum-to-discuss-treatment-protocols-and-drugsupplement-cocktail/treatment-protocol-from-endometrial-carcinoma-stage-4/paged/2/#post-909

Marcos thought a great deal about how to put a treatment plan together and the result was quite impressive. You would not want to necessarily duplicate this line for line, but the overall form is of interest. Instead of trying to throw every possible treatment at the cancer, you have a main treatment that you build up in combination and then add in other combinations that are congruent and you have a fair amount of metronomics involved.

With the vitamin C treatment you might want to think in terms of combining with Maitake mushroom D-Fraction (This has been discussed on the Vitamin C forum and they sell a liposomal blend that they claim is very powerful). The original research came out in 2015 so they should have accumulated a fair amount of anecdotal reports to date.

  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23341484/

 

With Fenbendazole perhaps consider the strong synergy that has been noted with DCA and 2-DG. This article suggest very very strong synergy.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30158-6

There is also research that specifically supports Fenbendazole in KRAS mutants

https://opac.ll.chiba-u.jp/da/curator/108438/FHA_1754.pdf

   

D talked about this research in 2019!

https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/community/lung-cancer/drug-library-screen-reveals-benzimidazole-derivatives-as-selective-cytotoxic-agents-for-kras-mutant-lung-cancer/

 

Here is an update from 2021.

https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/137876

 

 

 

Best Wishes Jcancom


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 
Posted by: @jcancom

 

With the vitamin C treatment you might want to think in terms of combining with Maitake mushroom D-Fraction (This has been discussed on the Vitamin C forum and they sell a liposomal blend that they claim is very powerful). The original research came out in 2015 so they should have accumulated a fair amount of anecdotal reports to date.

  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23341484/

 

Thanks for sharing jcancom, I hadn't seen that study. Another study also showed a synergistic effect, yet dose dependant. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1534735416644674

However, the combination of 0.6 mg/mL DFP (3/4 IC50) with 0.092 mM VC (1/4 IC50) produced an antagonistic effect where cells were inhibited by less than 50%.


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
 

@johan, Why didn't they go higher dose with the Vitamin C? One of the articles seemed to hint that this would make sense as one of the mechanisms of action is ROS. If it is proxidant that they want, then why stay under 1 mM? Some of the human clinical trials have reached ~ 50mM! Probably best to stay with a lowish dose with the mushrooms as they seem to work against efficacy when up dosed.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 
Posted by: @jcancom

Probably best to stay with a lowish dose with the mushrooms as they seem to work against efficacy when up dosed.

yes


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

@j @jcancom We got results of her first PET scan back (they neglected to do one until now), meeting with doctor is tomorrow. I have no idea how to read this; they didn’t actually measure anything (?!). Looks like there are a bunch of lymph nodes with SUV as high as 6.7 (1), 2 between 4 and 5 and most under 4. The main tumor - I guess 2 tumors in right lung - have SUV max of 1.32 and 1.47. Says her skeletal system is free of hyperbolic metastases and demonstrates non-tracer avid sclerotic metastases (and then lists the places where she has had metastases in spine, pelvis and sternum). The lymph nodes have me so nervous. Then she got blood tests back last night with super high TSH (18.5) but so far T3 and T4 have been good so doctor hasn’t wanted to treat thyroid. I think Keytruda is/has been destroying it. Also low alkaline phosphates of 27. I think she is protein deficient, it’s so hard trying to figure out if the Keto people are right, or the no-animal protein people. I’m having a rough day, struggling with thinking the worst.


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

@abidingtoday sorry to hear you're having a bad day. We we're discussing dietary options in another forum post yesterday. I'd link to it but I'm on my cel phone.

 


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

@jihan thanks, I couldn’t find it (also on my phone which probably makes it harder)


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @abidingtoday

@jihan thanks, I couldn’t find it (also on my phone which probably makes it harder)

@johan


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

@abidingtoday sorry for the delay, I just got back.

Here's that link

https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/community/postid/5175/

I think there's a much bigger body of evidence in favor of a low fat with plenty of fruits and vegetables. 

You just don't get the anticancer properties you can find in fruits and veggies from animal fats and protein.

A low lysine low serine diet seems a pretty good choice to me. And you can do this type of diet intermittently, one week, and then the next week add some other foods back in, and so on.

Hope your mother is doing well.

 


   
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(@jcancom)
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 625
 

@Abiding, I have just posted about ethyl pyruvate to the Another Metabolic One thread. This looks quite good. It pressures cancer metabolism and the FDA considers it to be GRAS. Might be worth a look and perhaps incorporate this into your overall treatment strategy.

Best Wishes, Jcancom


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

@abidingtoday 

I was checking on your list of supplements and couldn't find ALA/lipoic acid.

You do have hydroxycitrate, and especially in combination with lipoic acid is remarkably effective against many types of cancer tumors.

 


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  
Posted by: @j

I was checking on your list of supplements and couldn't find ALA/lipoic acid.

I was planning to add ALA. My mother got back what I consider to be good PET scan results, apart from the lymph node involvement, which I want to focus on. Then, five days ago, she ate a good deal of moldy hummus (before she realized it was moldy). Since then, and starting that day, she has had awful diarrhea, one or two times a day, and her stomach hurts terribly. The doctor ordered a C-diff test and a stool test. I’ve paused most of the supplements until we can figure out what this is. I thought maybe mycotoxins. I am still having her take the prebiotic & probiotic and the B vitamins as well as the milk thistle/dandelion and a binder, spirulina. I think I need to add biofilm enzymes. I’m so lost right now about what to do. 


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 
Posted by: @abidingtoday
Posted by: @j

I was checking on your list of supplements and couldn't find ALA/lipoic acid.

I was planning to add ALA. My mother got back what I consider to be good PET scan results, apart from the lymph node involvement, which I want to focus on. Then, five days ago, she ate a good deal of moldy hummus (before she realized it was moldy). Since then, and starting that day, she has had awful diarrhea, one or two times a day, and her stomach hurts terribly. The doctor ordered a C-diff test and a stool test. I’ve paused most of the supplements until we can figure out what this is. I thought maybe mycotoxins. I am still having her take the prebiotic & probiotic and the B vitamins as well as the milk thistle/dandelion and a binder, spirulina. I think I need to add biofilm enzymes. I’m so lost right now about what to do. 

You must be exhausted. Not sure if the spirulina is a good option in her condition. 

 


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  
Posted by: @j

Not sure if the spirulina is a good option in her condition. 

 

Oh, very good to know. May I ask why? Is it because of iron and cancer? Is it because it is algae? Something else? Do you feel the same way about chlorella? Do you have any suggestions?


   
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(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2143
 

@abidingtoday I can't seem to find it now, but I do like chlorella, I took it when I had covid. You might want to try some activated carbon, see if it helps.


   
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(@abidingtoday)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 129
Topic starter  

@j thank you. I’d like to read if you can find out why spirulina is ill-advised. I thought chlorella was practically the same thing. I am seeing sacchraomyces boulardii recommended as a binder. Do you have thoughts on that?


   
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