I’m really confused about IVC and Ferroptosis. I’ve read Daniel’s Yin and Yang article and Jane McLelland’s book. Both seemed great but in some ways contradictory; but probably because I don’t understand — is the goal of high-dose IVC always Ferroptosis?
@abidingtoday Artemisinin Derivatives Inhibit Non-small Cell Lung Cancer Cells Through Induction of ROS-dependent Apoptosis/Ferroptosis
Hi Daniel. Thank you so much for your kind offer of help. I also appreciate your blog and website more than I can say.
My main issue right now is trying to figure out the best strategy for mom, who has stage 4 NSCLC adenocarcinoma KRAS mutation. She recently finished carboplatin/pemetrexed/Keytruda after three rounds and is now on maintenance Keytruda alone.
- Do you have any thoughts on if we should consider trying to push for low dose pemetrexed alone in place of Keytruda (because of the high risks and low success rate and the fact that most strategies are geared toward those on chemo/radiation)?
- Should liposomal be used in addition to oral for daily C and what dosages do you like for each? Do you advise skip oral on IVC days as well?
- I think I used the wrong word when I said contradictory. When you mentioned Ferroptosis in your Yin Yang article at the end it threw me for a loop. Since mom only has Keytruda and no chemo or radiation, it seems that Ferroptosis might be best for her; but she can’t do any pre-treatment infusions for iron (EDTA), and stopping Hydroxychloroquine for her would be detrimental in my opinion (it does not need to be stopped for simple non-Ferroptosis-IVC I believe)? So first thing, I’m not even sure if Ferroptosis is even an option or advisable for her. Do you think it is?
- Assuming it is advisable to try Ferroptosis, I know we will add oral artemisinin, piperlongumine, and feverfew, but no prescription drugs or IV’s. I am confused as to what needs to be stopped in mom’s case. Loratadine, curcumin, Quercetin, resveratrol, EGCG, milk thistle, melatonin, mushrooms, Polydatin, Honokiol, bergamot, vitamin D - I have questions on all of these things.
- For the IVC, many places say they follow Riordan, but do ascorbic acid. Riordan does ascorbate. What C specifically should I try to get? Also, what specifically should go with it (I’ve heard sodium bicarbonate, also heard magnesium chloride, also heard magnesium chloride, potassium chloride and sodium chloride together? And what type of water (sterile water, saline 0.9%) for 50g, for example? I feel like everyone is saying something different and I’m scared to get something that won’t help or even worse, that could hurt her.
Thank you so much Daniel, I know this was a lot of questions and that you are busy doing great things with MCS formulas, the foundation, the blog, and helping people like me, so please don’t feel a need to rush a response. If a phone call is best (and thank you also for that offer) let me know; otherwise I’m happy to wait until you have time to respond. Thank you again.
Thank you again for all of your help and advice. It’s been invaluable to me, and I learned a great deal yesterday. I have some questions about daily vitamin C. I have seen some people recommend liposomal alongside oral - do you recommend liposomal as well, and if so, in what proportion/dosage? I have heard really good things about Liposomal C.
I know for the oral C you said pure ascorbic acid, powder I believe; but I thought I remembered the Linus Pauling study using ascorbate, and the Riordan clinic currently uses ascorbate for IVC and I believe also for the daily oral C they recommend (not sure about that, would need to verify). Would ascorbate not be better for her to take than ascorbic acid?
Also, what should I look out for on the label as I try to buy C? I’ve seen crazy things on some of these labels like l-lysine-hydrochloride, L-Ascorbate C crystals with FASM, GMS-Ribose, etc. I don’t know how to find the right thing(s) to buy.
Thank you — again!
So I re-read Daniel’s article on Vitamin C; it was great. I also read the Linus Pauling study. Sorry if there are more than one, I don’t remember how to say which specifically it was. Johan, you might have been saying this already... but I did want to say — I didn’t interpret the 10g daily doses he was giving to his subjects through most of the study as IVC. It is a shame he didn’t give more detail as to how it was administered; but I believe he only at one place in the study mentioned IVC, and it seemed almost specifically for that case alone. It seems like he was giving them oral C. Maybe I’m crazy and this is either something you knew already or something you know is wrong, but just my thoughts. This is all so interesting. I wish I wasn’t learning under these particular circumstances, but I do enjoy reading and learning these things.
I think with ascorbic acid you avoid the albeit small risk of kidney stones. I like pure ascorbic acid I buy it as a powder from Swanson. But ascorbate is good of course. Pauling has used both forms. You just want the vitamin C, not the other stuff.
So I re-read Daniel’s article on Vitamin C; it was great. I also read the Linus Pauling study. Sorry if there are more than one, I don’t remember how to say which specifically it was. Johan, you might have been saying this already... but I did want to say — I didn’t interpret the 10g daily doses he was giving to his subjects through most of the study as IVC. It is a shame he didn’t give more detail as to how it was administered; but I believe he only at one place in the study mentioned IVC, and it seemed almost specifically for that case alone. It seems like he was giving them oral C. Maybe I’m crazy and this is either something you knew already or something you know is wrong, but just my thoughts. This is all so interesting. I wish I wasn’t learning under these particular circumstances, but I do enjoy reading and learning these things.
Exactly, it is my impression Linus Pauling used IVC just for his very weak patients, they were after stage 4 cancer patients who were at the end of life. So IMO for Linus Pauling it never was about the route of administration, it was about the vitamin C and maintaining higher vitamin C blood plasma levels for as long as possible.
*after all
So considering the cost and even risk of IVC, the IVC clinical trial, etc there doesn´t seem to be much data to support the use of IVC over oral ascorbic acid or ascorbate. Just that in some settings IVC may be the preferred route of administration.
So you think no liposomal, just oral? I think I’ve read that liposomal can give higher blood plasma concentration of C for less C, and seen several people recommend to have some of each. You think liposomal just not necessary?
Honestly, the idea of liposomal for some supplements is something I struggle to understand. It seems like a lot of things that get added to make something liposomal are not necessarily good for the body, like lecithin.
exactly, that's my feeling too. And again it might have its benefits in combination with just the plain vitamin C but my guess is it is not needed, likely just more expensive with possibly negative side effects because of the delivery method.
@j You really did convince me of daily oral C yesterday. Thank you. Daniel further confirmed. I spent hours reading the comments from his vitamin C article as well, and I felt further confirmation. I know we are doing oral vitamin C and I am exited! I think she might still need IVC as an additional cancer attack strategy. It turns out that we are basically doing all of Daniel’s proposed strategies, the ones he has outlined so far in his blog, at least to some extent — missing a few prescription drugs — by the prescriptions she has and the supplements we have already chosen. I’m starting to see things really come together. I’m still not excited about the Keytruda, but I like everything else she is doing, and definitely excited about adding daily C. Thank you!
@abidingtoday You're doing a great job, and I hope your mother achieves a complete recovery.
btw I think it was you who asked about pure magnolol. I found this product a while ago, and forget to mention it here https://liftmode.com/magnolol-powder/#10g
Ascorbic acid and epigenetics https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415867/
@j Vitamin C really is awesome, and so multi-faceted. I’m excited to see if mom makes progress with it.
She is actually doing quite well in general, seeing all brain metastases shrink over 75% (post radiation - the doctor said this level of shrinking is really good, that many metastases don’t grow but don’t necessarily shrink after radiation) and the two large spine metastases seem to be dying and new bone growing in their place. Her lung mets have shrunk though not as much as I’d like. She did have some lymph nodes appear recently which has been a bit discouraging. I’m not sure if there is a way to address that, but hopefully it will be addressed as part of the larger picture. One thing I’d like to start to give her again is CBD oil. We stopped when advised against it for Keytruda, but I have a hunch it is fine to keep using. Do you know anything about this?
@j Vitamin C really is awesome, and so multi-faceted. I’m excited to see if mom makes progress with it.
She is actually doing quite well in general, seeing all brain metastases shrink over 75% (post radiation - the doctor said this level of shrinking is really good, that many metastases don’t grow but don’t necessarily shrink after radiation) and the two large spine metastases seem to be dying and new bone growing in their place. Her lung mets have shrunk though not as much as I’d like. She did have some lymph nodes appear recently which has been a bit discouraging. I’m not sure if there is a way to address that, but hopefully it will be addressed as part of the larger picture. One thing I’d like to start to give her again is CBD oil. We stopped when advised against it for Keytruda, but I have a hunch it is fine to keep using. Do you know anything about this?
CBD oils are good. CBD has β-Caryophyllene https://www.dovepress.com/-caryophyllene-from-chilli-pepper-inhibits-the-proliferation-of-non-sm-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IJGM
Copaiba is about 50% β-Caryophyllene so that is also a good and very affordable option if you wanted to supplement β-Caryophyllene.
Healthy oils are good for the lymphatic system, which is oil-based system, and blood is water. Water and oil don´t mix, nature is beautiful.
@j so you don’t see an issue with CBD and immunotherapy but think it could help the immune system? I saw that Daniel had an interaction with someone a bit ago where he addressed the few studies out there saying otherwise and said that they didn’t seem to really prove that there is any contraindication for the two. I was glad to read that as well. I read a disturbing off-hand comment on another forum, a Facebook group, saying that CBD wrecks the immune system, but I just haven’t any evidence for that. Have you heard that same thing as an argument against CBD?
@j so you don’t see an issue with CBD and immunotherapy but think it could help the immune system? I saw that Daniel had an interaction with someone a bit ago where he addressed the few studies out there saying otherwise and said that they didn’t seem to really prove that there is any contraindication for the two. I was glad to read that as well. I read a disturbing off-hand comment on another forum, a Facebook group, saying that CBD wrecks the immune system, but I just haven’t any evidence for that. Have you heard that same thing as an argument against CBD?
No, I haven't but then again I don't read that much about CBD. I think healthy oils are very beneficial to our lymphatic system, which IMO plays a much bigger role in fighting cancer compared to the circulatory system (blood). Blood supplies cells with what they need but the handling of waste is what ultimately gets us in trouble, health-wise. These systems don't mix, just like oil and water, they don't because they really need to be separated. Modern medicine is always looking at our blood because it's the easiest system and fluid to analyze.
Many people have issues with their immune system, and things that are generally considered good for the immune system, like exercise, can in some people make them feel worse, and become sick. But when you're dealing with problems of the immune system the focus needs to be on the gut, and the microbiome, not the lymphatic system.
People with cancer will usually have issues with the gut and microbiome, and issues with the lymphatic system, which deals with eliminating all the stuff the body needs to get out. Johanna Brandt cured cancer patients with grapes only. It looks impossible, but a grape-only diet can affect both the gut and lymphatic system profoundly.
@j great information. I’m trying to think how to apply it. Have her eat more grapes for sure, but I haven’t seen grapes recommended as much for cancer, maybe because if the sugar? I guess red grapes better? As for oils, she is doing 1g omega3 theee times a day, as well as high quality EVOO. Also, sea buckthorn oil 1g. And some frankincense essential oil was just given to us for her to put on the roof of her mouth. I really do believe that adding CBD back in will be good for her. I am especially hoping that it will address these new lymph nodes malignancies. I also have her on a supplement geared toward inflammation, which is also supposed to help the lymphatic system. It includes some proteolytic enzymes as well as Boswellia, turmeric and ginger. Not oils but hopefully will support healthy lymphatic drainage. These lymph node malignancies are really bugging me. I want them gone.
Processed sugar is bad for us but fruit isn't and it is packed with nutrients and, some fruits have been shown to be powerful allies to try and beat cancer. Although the human species evolved and adapted and became omnivores, diet once consisted of fruits mainly. We still carry that memory, in our DNA. My point is, it's processed sugar that should be eliminated. Fresh fruit, in season, is good. I'd also eat berries even out of season.
Cancer will feed on glucose, glutamine, use lactic acid etc, even eat other cancer cells. And cancer tumors are not as addicted to glucose as previously thought, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190109155719.htm
You can tell I'm not a fan of the metabolic approach to beating cancer 😉 not as the main strategy. Maybe one day a compound like 3BP may change all that, who knows.
Boswellia, turmeric and ginger, are all good. All these herbs do have a certain amount of oils.
@j what I find very interesting, and very reassuring actually, is that the same supplements and drugs that I landed on using the metabolic approach are the same drugs and supplements that I landed on using Daniel’s strategies blogs. He hasn’t finished writing all of them yet, but I took extensive notes on the drugs and supplements he recommended for each strategy, and was delighted to see such incredible overlap. It seems that some drugs and supplements are just good at fighting cancer; people are just discovering that through different means and objectives. The metabolic approach may not perfect, but it seems that it really is helping people to find drugs and supplements that help them to fight cancer. Just my thoughts on this.
@j also, I do prefer Daniel’s approach through the strategies, his explanations are crystal clear and it just makes more sense to me overall.
@j also, I do prefer Daniel’s approach through the strategies, his explanations are crystal clear and it just makes more sense to me overall.
Daniel is a scientist, he is a very bright person. I wish more scientists could comment and add to his work here.
@j what I find very interesting, and very reassuring actually, is that the same supplements and drugs that I landed on using the metabolic approach are the same drugs and supplements that I landed on using Daniel’s strategies blogs.
Yes, but that's quite logical. My bias is also understandable, I saw someone survive glioblastoma and it was a totally different approach. Show me people who have been long-term GBM survivors on this metabolic strategy, and you will get my attention!
@j that’s awesome that you helped someone survive GBM. How are they doing today?
Since we were talking about oils earlier, I went back to look at some of the liquid supplements. I realized the D3 contains vegetable glycerine. I don’t know much about that. I found a liquid D3 that is based in olive oil, though probably not organic. But better than vegetable glycerine based, do you think?
@abidingtoday I would be cautious about using cannabis with immunotherapy https://www.cancertherapyadvisor.com/home/cancer-topics/general-oncology/cannabis-cancer-use-decrease-immunotherapy-efficacy/
@dumbcritic thank you. I think I did see that one. It seems like one study, with a pretty small number of observed patients. It doesn’t seem to get into the “why”. I’m not very convinced to be honest, but I am open. I’d like to see and understand more of the science behind the conclusion.
@abidingtoday I would be cautious about using cannabis with immunotherapy https://www.cancertherapyadvisor.com/home/cancer-topics/general-oncology/cannabis-cancer-use-decrease-immunotherapy-efficacy/
interesting, thanks for sharing
@j that’s awesome that you helped someone survive GBM. How are they doing today?
I have posted the case study here
https://synergiesforcancertreatments.blogspot.com/p/17-year-glioblastoma-survivor.html
Since we were talking about oils earlier, I went back to look at some of the liquid supplements. I realized the D3 contains vegetable glycerine. I don’t know much about that. I found a liquid D3 that is based in olive oil, though probably not organic. But better than vegetable glycerine based, do you think?
I use Swanson D3 in olive oil, really think it is the best option.
@j I will read that story!
Yes, your D3 and the one I could look basically the same. Seeking Health is the brand I found. I can research it more, but I’m pretty sure olive oil, even if not organic, is better than vegetable glycerin.
