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Fasting as an anti-cancer strategy


Jcancom
(@jcancom)
Joined: 4 years ago
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I do not think that we have emphasized enough the importance of fasting as an anti-cancer strategy.  The below study is quite startling: Simply fasting for 13 hours overnight had a substantial influence on cancer recurrence in breast cancer. 13 hours? That is hardly even eating at 6 PM and then again at 7 AM. Isn't that almost the expected pattern of eating? Do people (especially breast cancer patients) snack after their evening meal? The below study found that each additional 2 hours of fasting added yet more benefit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27032109

This was a real eye opener for me. Apparently the reduction in recurrence seen in this study is at the same level as that found with chemotherapy. Given this, it is highly discouraging that such a simple metabolic strategy has not been extensively studied before. I would be extremely interested in seeing follow on studies that perhaps extended out the fasting interval to perhaps 24 .. 48 .. 72 .. 240 hours .. . They could also try intermittent fasting such as a paleo zero carb diet with daily ketogenic time restricted feeding. The arrival of continuous glucose monitoring could take the guess work out of diet recall.

Considering the highly disappointing results from the TAILORX breast cancer study (specifically 85% of women with early breast cancer ( those with an identifiable genetic signature) received no benefited from traditional preventative treatments. How can metabolic therapies that have shown the success noted above now not be aggressively funded and researched?  

 

 


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Jcancom
(@jcancom)
Joined: 4 years ago
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Topic starter  

This is exciting! I was wondering whether reports of cancer patients trying prolonged water only fasts might be in the literature. Apparently, recently a report of a 21 day water only fast was reported for a cancer patient which resulted in a long term remission (see the two articles below). There are some caveats here: The type of cancer involved stage IIIa, low-grade follicular lymphoma is highly treatable with current therapies, so one wonders to what extent it is ethical to not first give standard of care. Also this type of cancer appears to have prolonged survival so it is not obvious how effective the diet intervention was. 

The next two urls are large scale fasting studies that showed that these approaches are quite safe though the studies were not constructed to screen for cancer patients. Water only fasting over prolonged periods does appear to have substantial potential for cancer therapy. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30093470

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26655228

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29458369

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/pdf/pone.0209353.pdf


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Kimster
(@kimster)
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Posts: 115
 
Posted by: @jcancom

I do not think that we have emphasized enough the importance of fasting as an anti-cancer strategy. 

 

 

Hi Jcancom, thank you for creating this topic for this Forum.

Just would like to share the following information here after noticed it recently:

 

https://youtu.be/wiGVsUtCZwI

Stage 4 Cancer Success Story
 
6 Jul 2020

 

Guy Tenenbaum had stage 4 cancer.

He is now cancer-free!

For many years, Guy dealt with numerous health problems, including:
• Type II diabetes
• Hypertension
• High cholesterol
• Joint and bone pain
• Chronic inflammation
• Weight problems


After repeatedly insisting on a PSA (a protein that can be produced cancerous tissue in the prostate) test, doctors discovered that Guy had serious cancer.


They told them that there was nothing they could do for him and that he only had a few months to live.

:

:

Then, he discovered the realm of natural medicine and fasting.
He fasted for 45 days.
During his fast he consumed natural cancer-killing nutrients.
 
There are two key takeaways:
1. Prolonged fasting helps induce autophagy.
2. Low or no-calorie nutrients and herbs are vital along the way to increase the cancer-killing power of fasting.
:
:
 
 
Thanks.
Kimster

 

 

 

 


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Kimster
(@kimster)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 115
 

 

Hi friends, just adding the following information from UCSF Osher Center for Integrative Medicine:

 

https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-resources/cancer-and-nutrition/faq/cancer-and-fasting-calorie-restriction

Cancer and Fasting / Calorie Restriction

 

Thanks.

Kimster


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Jcancom
(@jcancom)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 549
Topic starter  

kimster, I have liked at least on a conceptual level this article https://arxiv.org/pdf/1407.7622.pdf

for quite some time. The foundational metabolic concept of resetting basic health parameters such as body weight, glucose levels, probably cholesterol levels etc. has not bee stressed on this website enough. I think Don's successful self-treatment for his prostate cancer was the closest we have approached covering the bases. I think the idea that patients can go to their doctor, receive a cancer diagnosis and then simply be prescribed a pill to "fix" the problem is almost completely absurd.

It is the easiest approach, yet it does not address the foundational problems. The alternative clinics that actually raise the typically difficult topics of weight reduction and glucose control etc. can obviously be seen as trying to help patients at the level of the illness. For a great many people making such health enhancing adjustments can be very difficult, though in order to heal it is quite often a necessity.

This first article in the starve cancer series is quite instructive. I had no idea that glucose levels could be brought down to the levels reported in the article. I have seen the tumor responses to fairly modest reduction in glucose in mice models; one can only guess what might happen if glucose levels were brought down to the extent imagined in the article. 

Apparently some (but not all) cancers can respond quite strongly to glucose lowering. There are a range of strategies that could help to achieve such glucose reduction. For example, even modest overnight fasting helps-- longer fasts could also be tried. For some, even longer fasts could be attempted, though professional medical advice would be necessary at some stage to maintain safety.

So many anti-cancer benefits to fasting could occur; e.g., reduction in lactate, improved immune control, glucose reduction ... .

 

I will need to look around for it, though I believe the starve cancer idea has not so long ago been given an update with a protocol that has already been used in humans. Such an approach could be a very powerful anti-cancer treatment. 

 

 


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Jcancom
(@jcancom)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 549
Topic starter  

This is an updated version of cancer starvation with standard protocols that have all been used in patients separately, though the hypoglycemic clamp and low dose insulin are only standard in non-cancer patients,

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30037608/


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Jcancom
(@jcancom)
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 549
Topic starter  

We have seen quite a few iterations of the extreme starvation approach to cancer management in Medical Hypotheses and elsewhere. Those who have written about it have high technical knowledge and they appear to believe that there is justification in moving forward with animal testing.

In one of the links below the interesting idea that cancer cells are unable to properly metabolize lactate is introduced. If true, then this could offer a less technically difficult route to glucose withdrawal; simply remove the glucose and add in lactate. Some of the other approaches try to remove glucose from the body but then must find work around for the heart and brain.

Perhaps with added lactate no workaround would be needed. Clearly essentially shutting down glucose would have overwhelming anti-cancer effects. This idea must have been considered for many decades; it is only the question of having the right set up to realize this idea.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31383320/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19264418/


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Kimster
(@kimster)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 115
 

@jcancom

Hi Jcancom, thank you for sharing further informatiotion.

 

Just adding the following information to this topic --- for other friends to read:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fonc.2020.00578/full

Managing Metastatic Thymoma With Metabolic and Medical Therapy: A Case Report

05 May 2020

:

:

We hypothesize that 2 years of fasting and ketogenic diet therapy metabolically weakened the neoplastic thymic cell component of the thymoma, “setting the stage” for immune activation and extreme energy restriction to destroy the majority of cancer cells during both relapses, while prednisone-induced apoptosis eradicated the remaining lymphocytic component of the thymoma during the second relapse.

This case is unique in that a metabolic-based fasting and ketogenic diet intervention was used as the primary management strategy for a metastatic cancer in the absence of surgery, chemotherapy, or radiotherapy, culminating in a near-complete regression.

Nearly 3 years after being diagnosed with inoperable metastatic cancer, our patient shows no signs of disease and leads a full and active life.

 

Thanks.

Kimster


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aurora0010
(@aurora0010)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 8
 
Posted by: @jcancom

I do not think that we have emphasized enough the importance of fasting as an anti-cancer strategy.  The below study is quite startling: Simply fasting for 13 hours overnight had a substantial influence on cancer recurrence in breast cancer. 13 hours? That is hardly even eating at 6 PM and then again at 7 AM. Isn't that almost the expected pattern of eating? Do people (especially breast cancer patients) snack after their evening meal? The below study found that each additional 2 hours of fasting added yet more benefit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27032109

This was a real eye opener for me. Apparently the reduction in recurrence seen in this study is at the same level as that found with chemotherapy. Given this, it is highly discouraging that such a simple metabolic strategy has not been extensively studied before. I would be extremely interested in seeing follow on studies that perhaps extended out the fasting interval to perhaps 24 .. 48 .. 72 .. 240 hours .. . They could also try intermittent fasting such as a paleo zero carb diet with daily ketogenic time restricted feeding. The arrival of continuous glucose monitoring could take the guess work out of diet recall.

Considering the highly disappointing results from the TAILORX breast cancer study (specifically 85% of women with early breast cancer ( those with an identifiable genetic signature) received no benefited from traditional preventative treatments. How can metabolic therapies that have shown the success noted above now not be aggressively funded and researched?  

 

 

It is amazing. I had no idea fasting can be used as an anti cancer strategy. Will definitely research on it. Thank you for sharing! 


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toobs1234
(@toobs)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 25
 

I will just add to this that my psa dropped by 40% after two fasts of 48 hours (two weeks between tests). My blood sugar got down to 60 and I was taking metformin, green tea and curcumin extracts. Four subsequent 72 hour fasts, tho, had no additional impact on psa, unfortunately.


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 

@toobs 

 

I'm new to this site, first post.  I was diagnosed with Stage IV PCa on Mar 19, 2021.  I went to Mexico in April for alternative treatments with some success.  However, my tumor size remained unchanged at my follow-up in August.  A few weeks ago I found Prof. Thomas Seyfried a PhD of Microbiology at Boston College and his theory of treating cancer as a metabolic disease.  His strategy is to basically deprive cancer of its fermentable fuel sources, primarily glucose and glutamine.  He suggests doing a calorie restrictive keto diet to lower the glucose to achieve a 1/1 or less, G/K ratio.  Cancer cannot use ketones where healthy cells can.  Since glutamine is found is pretty much everything we eat, it is necessary to block its absorption which he recommends doing with a drug called "DON" which is difficult to obtain.  He also states that Fenbendazole and EGCG green tea may also work.  I just started trying both.

If using fasting as a strategy to lower glucose and glutamine, I was told that it takes 2 days to deplete glutamine levels and another 2 days to really start killing cancer cells.  So, perhaps your fasts weren't long enough in duration.  Prof Seyfried indicates that after 14 days he has not seen any cancer surviving in the patients he has been studying.  I am gearing up to try a 4-7 day fast soon and hoping that will be enough.

You can find many videos on YouTube where Prof Seyfried discusses his protocols.  He also mentions doing hyperbaric oxygen therapies which I will also try.  


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johan
(@j)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 585

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johan
(@j)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 585
 

@martin1ca 

Sodium phenylbutyrate antagonizes prostate cancer through the induction of apoptosis and attenuation of cell viability and migration

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869668/


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 
Posted by: @j

@martin1ca 

Sodium phenylbutyrate antagonizes prostate cancer through the induction of apoptosis and attenuation of cell viability and migration

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869668/

Thanks.  I will check it out.  I am also considering using the below as it supports good mitochondrial health.  $49 on Amazon.

Benagene - Thermally Stabilized Oxaloacetate Anti-Aging Supplement


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 

I took my GKI on Sunday after getting the Novamax Plus kit that measures both glucose and ketones, and was distressed to learn, despite three+ months of a low-carb diet (and losing 30 pounds,) that I was NOT ANYWHERE NEAR being in ketosis.

 

My GKI was 13.7.

 

SO...I immediately embarked on a 75-hour water and green tea fast.  Finished fasting yesterday after my GKI came in at .9, (glucose 78, ketones 4.7) and was obviously thrilled (also lost 7 more pounds...lo.)

 

I am sure MartinCA1 is 100% correct and that Dr. Seyfried is definitely onto something.  I believe cancer is definitely more metabolic (and environmental) than genetic.  However, I am surprised there aren't more testimonials out there of people beating cancers with long term fasting and glutamine inhibitors.  Maybe too few know to try it, or many know but can't hack it...?

 

I'm getting imaging done Monday for my 9-gleason, 16-22 PSA range prostate cancer and will report back.  In the meantime I'm using almost every known apoptosis-inducing natural remedy known to man, and will lower my daily carbs to 1500 and will continue to use the 6-hour daily eating window.

 

A note on fenbendazole...I did three weeks of it, and it shot my liver enzymes way up, so be careful with that...especially if you suspect you have a fungal invasion, like Candida Albicans.


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 

@martin1ca Hard to find a source without a precription and can be super expensive.  Also hard to get proper dosing instruction.


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johan
(@j)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 585
 
Posted by: @sm60

 In the meantime I'm using almost every known apoptosis-inducing natural remedy known to man

@sm60 Hi, many thanks for sharing, could you let us know the natural products you're using? 

Also, regarding ketosis, are you using MCT oil?

Good luck!


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 

@j I've used fenbendazole, but stopped because it was shooting my liver enzymes up, zinc, vitamn D ( as much as 100k IUs per day,) lugols 2% iodine 15 drops daily, vitamn C 4-5 g per day, blood root, Essiac tea, magnesium, potassium and daily supplements, milk thistle, boron, reveratrol, the list goes on...


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
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@j No MCT oil.


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 

@sm60 

Sounds like you have a solid strategy to beat your PCa @sm60.    


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 

@sm60 

You want to use MCT oil available in powder form @sm60 as it is an excellent medium chain transfat.  An ideal keto diet would be 70% fats, 25% protein and no more than 5% carbs.  It's hard to get enough fats and way too easy to overdo the protein.  Most fatty meats are at best 50/50 fat to protein.  A lot of people do olive oil shots at the start of their two meals.  I just started doing this too.  


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 

@sm60 

 

I found it on Amazon for $49.  Not sure how good it is but at least you don't need a script.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BP69XM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2K4AUF0ZD6BOU&psc=1


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 
Posted by: @martin1ca

@sm60 

Sounds like you have a solid strategy to beat your PCa @sm60.    

Thanks.  Sad that this forum is so dead compared, for example, to "HealthUnlocked.com" where all those much more numerous desperate souls all sit around waiting with baited breath for any pronoucements from the the big pharma stooges like "TallAllen."


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 
Posted by: @martin1ca

@sm60 

 

I found it on Amazon for $49.  Not sure how good it is but at least you don't need a script.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BP69XM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2K4AUF0ZD6BOU&psc=1

Unless I missed it, the abbr. "MCT" appeared nowhere.  How do you know that's the stuff, and what would be the dosage.

 

TIA....


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 
Posted by: @martin1ca

@sm60 

You want to use MCT oil available in powder form @sm60 as it is an excellent medium chain transfat.  An ideal keto diet would be 70% fats, 25% protein and no more than 5% carbs.  It's hard to get enough fats and way too easy to overdo the protein.  Most fatty meats are at best 50/50 fat to protein.  A lot of people do olive oil shots at the start of their two meals.  I just started doing this too.  

Hmmmm...thanks.  Worth some thought.  I would be worried, though, that you can't be sure that what you get that is labelled "olive oil" is even truly olive oil...unless you ask Popeye, I suppose.


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 

This egg fast sounds interesting for people wanting to get into ketosis without the extreme discomfort that can come from total fasting (i.e. Water onl fasting):

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/egg-fast

 

I already typically eat five large eggs daily, and that usually makes up more than a third of my total daily caloric intake.

amartin1ca...What sayest thou?


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sm60
 sm60
(@sm60)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 10
 
Posted by: @sm60
Posted by: @martin1ca

@sm60 

You want to use MCT oil available in powder form @sm60 as it is an excellent medium chain transfat.  An ideal keto diet would be 70% fats, 25% protein and no more than 5% carbs.  It's hard to get enough fats and way too easy to overdo the protein.  Most fatty meats are at best 50/50 fat to protein.  A lot of people do olive oil shots at the start of their two meals.  I just started doing this too.  

Hmmmm...thanks.  Worth some thought.  I would be worried, though, that you can't be sure that what you get that is labelled "olive oil" is even truly olive oil...unless you ask Popeye, I suppose.

What about substituting flax seed oil, or coconut oil, or...?


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martin1ca
(@martin1ca)
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 9
 

@sm60 

 

I know coconut oil is also very good.  I have some but haven't do a shot of it.  


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