TNBC / testing stra...
 
Notifications
Clear all

TNBC / testing strategies in a NED situation

688 Posts
8 Users
316 Likes
13.1 K Views
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

Hi all,

sorry for being so silent during the past months and again a special and huge THANK YOU to @Johan for providing such a wealth of extremely valuable information in this forum! Everytime I scroll through this thread I am blown away by all your input! It is absolutely amazing!

Brief update on Bianca's situation:

We meassured her CTCs again and they went slightly up from zero (below limit of detection) to 50. Accoording to the lab it is nothing to worry about since it is within the "natural range" of CTCs in healthy individuals. She is still on the COC protocol + Apigenin, Luteolin, Quercetin, Bromelain, Vit D, K2 and Vit C (oral + IV during Doxy cycle).

She is going to have breast surgery in December to remove the healthy breast. Our doc from the Care Oncology Clinic recommends to use Celecoxib (NSAID) starting 10 days prior to surgery 2x100mg daily for 6 weeks. I was rather thinking about ketorolac, but thanks to a study (DOI 10.1007/s13277-015-3322-5) that johan shared somewhere in this thread, celecoxib might be even better in combination with luteolin. Anyway, do you have any opinion on which NSAIDs might be most promising in her situation?

When she had the mastectomy last year, she was given some opioids. I stumbled across studies that indicate that opioids could be promoting cancer metastasis. One study showed that ketorolac was able to compensate that effect ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32243929/ ) in mice. Whereas in humans there was a finding that "Higher intraoperative opioid dose was associated with improved recurrence free survival (hazard ratio [HR] 0.93, 95% CI 0.88-0.99, per 10 morphine milligram equivalent [MME] increase)" https://www.uptodate.com/contents/anesthesia-and-cancer-recurrence#:~:text=Clinical%20studies%20of%20the%20effects,associated%20with%20negative%20oncologic%20outcomes

Would you take opioids during the hospital stay or rather avoid them?


   
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@chris48 

Hi Chris, good to hear from you! Recurrence-free survival doesn't always improve overall survival. Here's an interesting review:

Opioid medications: an emerging cancer risk factor?

I agree with the recommendation to use celecoxib prior to the surgery, and it seems like a good combination with Luteolin which Bianca is already taking. And with Vitamin D:

Combined Treatment of Breast Cancer Cell Lines with Vitamin D and COX-2 Inhibitors

Results: The proliferation of MCF-7 and MDA-MB-231 was inhibited by both calcitriol and the COX-2 inhibitor celecoxib and even stronger by their combination. Moreover, calcitriol inhibited the COX-2 protein expression in MDA-MB-231, as well as the COX-2 mRNA expression in both cell lines.

Conclusion: The combination of calcitriol and celecoxib demonstrated a cooperative growth-inhibiting effect in breast cancer cell lines.


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

@j Thank you so much, Johan!

So, she will ask to not get any opioids and she will take Celecocib, Luteolin, Vit D and maybe even some Calcitrol (if she gets a prescription) before and after the surgery.


   
johan reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@chris48 or calcifediol which is the precursor of calcitriol. Also, note that magnesium is crucial in order to activate Vit D.


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@chris48 be aware that taking metformin (part of COC protocol) with Celecoxib may increase the risk of a rare but serious and potentially life-threatening condition known as lactic acidosis.


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

Protective effect of lycopene on celecoxib-induced hepatotoxicity

 


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

GRP78 is overexpressed in TNBC

Aspirin potentiates celecoxib-induced growth inhibition and apoptosis in human non-small cell lung cancer by targeting GRP78 activity

"Aspirin induced an endoplasmic reticulum stress response by inhibiting GRP78 activity. Furthermore, combination therapy (with celecoxib) also exhibited a better inhibitory effect on tumor growth in vivo."


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

Posted by: @j

@chris48 be aware that taking metformin (part of COC protocol) with Celecoxib may increase the risk of a rare but serious and potentially life-threatening condition known as lactic acidosis.

Thank you, I was not aware of that. Since she has none of the risk factors and the doctor recommends this combination I guess she should still use it, but we will watch out for any early symptoms of lactic acidosis.

 


   
johan reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

Posted by: @j

GRP78 is overexpressed in TNBC

Aspirin potentiates celecoxib-induced growth inhibition and apoptosis in human non-small cell lung cancer by targeting GRP78 activity

"Aspirin induced an endoplasmic reticulum stress response by inhibiting GRP78 activity. Furthermore, combination therapy (with celecoxib) also exhibited a better inhibitory effect on tumor growth in vivo."

and btw, aspirin isn't a good combo with metformin

 


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
jens
 jens
(@jens)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 91
 

@j HI Everyone.

Sadly I have to tell you my wife Lourdes passed away two weeks ago. I didnt know how to come here and tell you. Everyone here has been so helpful. I sincerely thought we could beat this. I still believe its beatable but acting quickly and thinking outside the normal health care system is a must. It has been a 5 year journey. I wish the knowledge I have now was with me 5 years ago when she originally  received her diagnoses. I want to thank Johan for all his hard work. Ofcourse Daniel as well. So many people have contributed to the cause of overcoming this dreaded disease. I made many mistakes with her but its hindsight now. Since my wifes death 2 weeks ago I have personally come across two people that have TNBC. Maybe I can continue leaning and maybe help others. I would  like to see more research and treatments when the cancer has reached the leptomeningeal stage. Once the cancer was there we ran out of options. I think for patients who is at that stage we need some clear treatment protocols with some merit. Thank you for all your contributions. I can say in my heart she lived longer becouse of everyone here.

 

Jens


   
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@jens 

I'm very very sorry, Jens. I was hoping for a miracle. You didn't make any mistakes, when such an aggressive cancer comes back there aren't many options, and the choices you and Lourdes made offered the possibility of putting her cancer in remission.

Please accept my deepest condolences for you and your family's loss.

Johan

 


   
ReplyQuote
laika
(@laika)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 12
 

Hello, Jens.

I'm so sorry for your loss. You and Lourdes did everything possible to give her the chance at remission.

Sending my deepest condolences and hugs.

Anna


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

Hello everyone, 

 

I somehow stumbled across this site last night and I can't believe what a wealth of information is here! I need some help putting things together. I am 44 and have been dealing with TNBC since May of 2020. I've already done a lot of treatments, radiation twice, 5 surgeries and really need to up my game since it moved now to my right lymph node (cancer site has been on the left). I go to Stanford and live in California. I would like to put together a protocol. 

 

Diagnosed 5/2020 with low hormone positive BC, stage 2B. BrCA 1

Lumpectomy, 1 lymph node involved. 

chemo

radiation 

NED

6/2021 preventative hysterectomy 

11/2021, recurrence on the skin, Now is TNBC treated with Talzenna and Keytruda (didn't finish all cycles because of growth) successfully but started growing again 7 or so months later, but successful double mastectomy, axillary node dissection 12/2022, non PCR, put on Xeloda 

5/2023 MRI showed small spot, intrapectoral muscle area, surgery 6/2023, very small spot mostly dead. 

9/2023 Radiation again but also including new spot. 

11/2023 Trodelvy infusions

1/2024 Small spot removed on left cancer and now moved to small spot on right side high upper pectoral node. 

2/2024 Surgery on left to clean up cancer spot. 

Right side node left in me. Giving Trodelvy a bit more time to work. plus SBRT on right node. 

I started with Herbal teas (from Dr. Wong, a popular herbalist in USA that has healed  a lot of cancer patients, even stage 4. 

I have done homeopathy throughout. 

I just got signed up with Signatera to track CTC. 

 

This has been almost 4 years of this and REALLY need to get a handle on it before it spreads anymore. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much! 


   
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@kels 

Hi, here are studies showing efficacy in preventing or inhibiting metastasis in TNBC:

Mebendazole prevents distant organ metastases in part by decreasing ITGβ4 expression and cancer stemness
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36578038/

An FDA-Approved Antifungal, Ketoconazole, and Its Novel Derivative Suppress tGLI1-Mediated Breast Cancer Brain Metastasis by Inhibiting the DNA-Binding Activity of Brain Metastasis-Promoting Transcription Factor tGLI1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454738/

Significant response of low-dose apatinib monotherapy in brain metastases of triple-negative breast cancer: A case report
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30681587/

Study on the effect of ursolic acid on MMPs and antimetastatic activity in TNBC cells
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.phyplu.2022.100265

Shikonin inhibits triple-negative breast cancer-cell metastasis by reversing the epithelial-to-mesenchymal transition via glycogen synthase kinase 3β-regulated suppression of β-catenin signaling
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31071331/

Melatonin Represses Metastasis in Her2-Postive Human Breast Cancer Cells by Suppressing RSK2 Expression
https://aacrjournals.org/mcr/article/14/11/1159/126819/Melatonin-Represses-Metastasis-in-Her2-Postive

Diallyl trisulfides, a natural histone deacetylase inhibitor, attenuate HIF-1α synthesis, and decreases breast cancer metastasis
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/mc.22686

Highly Metastatic Subpopulation of TNBC Cells Has Limited Iron Metabolism and Is a Target of Iron Chelators https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36672419/
Naringin is a promising natural compound for therapy of iron-overload disorders "We found that naringin is able to decrease serum iron level in an effective manner, even more potent than the gold standard, desferal."
https://www.scielo.br/j/bjps/a/QCq7fk6CszPnvHNr7RfFWCG/?format=pdf&lang=en

Chrysin inhibits metastatic potential of human triple-negative breast cancer cells by modulating matrix metalloproteinase-10, epithelial to mesenchymal transition, and PI3K/Akt signaling pathway
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24122885/

Thymoquinone Inhibition of Chemokines in TNF-α-Induced Inflammatory and Metastatic Effects in Triple-Negative Breast Cancer Cells
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37373025/

Polyphenol-Rich Muscadine Grape Extract Reduces Triple Negative Breast Cancer Metastasis in Mice with Changes in the Gut Microbiome
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-384168/v1/3b066e44-2a82-4eda-ac2e-27ceac5a81d3.pdf

[10]-Gingerol Affects Multiple Metastatic Processes and Induces Apoptosis in MDAMB- 231 Breast Tumor Cells
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30370858/

Emodin inhibits epithelial‑mesenchymal transition and metastasis of triple negative breast cancer via antagonism of CC‑chemokine ligand 5 secreted from adipocytes
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/ijmm.2018.3638

Betulinic acid impairs metastasis and reduces immunosuppressive cells in breast cancer models
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5790500/

Metastasis of Breast Tumor Cells to Brain Is Suppressed by Phenethyl Isothiocyanate in a Novel In Vivo Metastasis Model
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0067278

Sulforaphane suppresses metastasis of triple-negative breast cancer cells by targeting the RAF/MEK/ERK pathway

Triptonide (Tripterygium wilfordii) effectively inhibits triple-negative breast cancer metastasis through concurrent degradation of Twist1 and Notch1 oncoproteins
https://breast-cancer-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13058-021-01488-7

Metformin and propranolol combination prevents cancer progression and metastasis in different breast cancer models
https://www.oncotarget.com/article/13760/text/

High-Intensity Exercise May Reduce the Risk of Metastatic Cancer by 72%. Using data from a prospective study, researchers found 72% less metastatic cancer in participants who regularly engaged in high-intensity aerobic activity. The researchers defined high-intensity exercise as an exercise where your heart rate is 80-85% of the maximum pulse rate e.g. 132 for a 55-year-old.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221114/High-intensity-aerobic-exercise-can-cut-metastatic-cancer-risk-by-7225.aspx

Anticancer synergies:

https://synergiesforcancertreatments.blogspot.com/p/triple-negative-breast-cancer-tnbc.html

Best Regards
Johan


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

Thank you so much Johan for all of this great info!I really appreciate it.


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

@chris48 could you comment on your wife's protocol? 


   
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@kels here's @chris48 last update on Bianca's complementary treatment:

"She is still on the COC protocol + Apigenin, Luteolin, Quercetin, Bromelain, Vit D, K2, and Vit C (oral + IV during Doxy cycle). She is going to have breast surgery in December"

https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/community/postid/7368/


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

@j Thank you so so much!


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

@j What is the COC protocol? @chris48 


   
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

https://careoncologyclinic.com/what-is-the-coc-protocol-new

it includes 4 four medications: metformin, atorvastatin, doxycycline, and mebendazole.


   
ReplyQuote
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

Dear all,

First and foremost, I extend my deepest condolences to @Jens and the family of Lourdes. I am truly sorry for your loss. It's evident that your dedication and care contributed significantly to her life. I hope that you find the strength to grieve, heal, and in time, share the knowledge you've gained with others. I fully agree that there is so much untapped potential that can, at the very least, prolong many lives.

I am sorry for not reacting earlier. Since Bianca is quiet well and cancer-free right now, we have tried to get a little break from cancer issues during the last months.

@kels: Of course @j is right with the info he gave about Bianca's protocol. Here are the dosages:

- Doxycycline; 100mg (every other month)
- Mebendazole; 200mg (every other month)
- Atorvastatin; 40mg
- Metformin; 1.5g
- Quercetin; 3g 
- Omega 3; 2.1g
- Berberine (liposomal); 500mg
- Aspirin; 100mg
- Apigenin (liposomal); 200mg
- Luteolin (liposomal); 150mg
- Bromelain; 400mg
Bioperine; 30mg 

Right now, she is taking only the COC protocol + Luteolin, Apigenin, Bioperine and Berberine every single day. Lifestyle: Still intermittent fasting, different types of exercise and healthy diet (low carb, healthy fats and lots of veggies).

I love the diagrams and maps from Johan. I attach the one he made for us, where everything that Bianca takes is highlighted in yellow. Maybe this can also help you to find good combinations with the things you are already doing.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

All the best,

Chris


   
johan reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

Posted by: @chris48

Since Bianca is quiet well and cancer-free right now, we have tried to get a little break from cancer issues during the last months.

@chris48 wonderful news! Here's an interesting study I recently found, about luteolin:

"luteolin as a potent compound that blocked the pyroglutamation of CD47 by isoQC. "

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1936523321001212

 


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

I'm sharing Chris's response again for @kels (in the original post the notification doesn't appear to work). Thanks again, Chris!!

Posted by: @chris48

@kels: Of course @j is right with the info he gave about Bianca's protocol. Here are the dosages:

- Doxycycline; 100mg (every other month)
- Mebendazole; 200mg (every other month)
- Atorvastatin; 40mg
- Metformin; 1.5g
- Quercetin; 3g 
- Omega 3; 2.1g
- Berberine (liposomal); 500mg
- Aspirin; 100mg
- Apigenin (liposomal); 200mg
- Luteolin (liposomal); 150mg
- Bromelain; 400mg
Bioperine; 30mg 

Right now, she is taking only the COC protocol + Luteolin, Apigenin, Bioperine and Berberine every single day. Lifestyle: Still intermittent fasting, different types of exercise and healthy diet (low carb, healthy fats and lots of veggies).

I love the diagrams and maps from Johan. I attach the one he made for us, where everything that Bianca takes is highlighted in yellow. Maybe this can also help you to find good combinations with the things you are already doing.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

All the best,

Chris

 


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

@j @chris48 Thank you both so much! I started on fenben last two days 222 mg and start ivermectin human dose tomorrow morning with binders (20 mg daily). I'm going to cut and paste as this is so helpful! I'm in the states. I'm also taking turkey tail, vit D, homeopathy, magnesium.  I do a lot of veggies and low carb, no dairy, no gluten. What is Bianca's intermittent fasting numbers? Yay for cancer free!!! Yes, take a break. Did she get the CTC test and showing negative?


   
ReplyQuote
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

Dear @kels, you are very welcome! Bianca's CTCs went slightly up (from 0 to 50), but this is still a very low value and within the natural fluctuations (with this maintrac counting it often goes above 10,000). So we (and our oncologist from COC) are still happy with that. By the way, the COC is also working in the US ( https://careoncology.com/). They also offer a "Plus"-package now, where they give recommendations for supplements that go along the standard COC protocol and are tailored to your situation.

Since Bianca is NED and has low CTCs, she does not take a lot of supplements, but we would propably escalate it, if the situation changes. Most of them do no or very little harm, but show some potential against TNBC. I am always searching for "low risk, high potential" solutions.

Anyway, I have translated a powerpoint (that originally I have only done for myself) into English (see attachment). It contains various supplements and medications that showed efficacy against TNBC. There are also some other treatment options (slides 69-84) and several holistic startegies from this website (slides 85-105). Maybe you can find something interesting in there. And @j if you happen to look into it, feel free to rip it apart if you find something dangerous, false or misleading in it. You have so much more knowledge than I and I am grateful for any corrections or additions.

All the best,

Chris


   
johan reacted
ReplyQuote
(@chris48)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 45
Topic starter  

@kels I forgot the intermittent fasting: she tries to stay at least 12-16 hours without food each day. During her chemos she was fasting for 5 days around the chemo. Sometimes with 0 calories, sometimes according to Longo ~200cal per day.


   
ReplyQuote
 kels
(@kels)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 7
 

@chris48 Thank you so so much for all of this helpful information and translating it!  A little overwhelming but got a start on fenben two days ago at 222 mg and ivermectin today 20 mg once a day.


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
(@j)
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2135
 

@chris48 

Here's an interesting finding: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0753332221009525

"Co-treatment with mebendazole completely eliminates anticancer effect of the disulfiram and metformin combination. Tumor progression inhibited by disulfiram and metformin combination was completely rescued by mebendazole"

 


   
Chris48 reacted
ReplyQuote
Page 23 / 23
Share: